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It requires that complexity because a metric shit ton of scientific research shows that it is more complicated than that. Permanent weight loss of more than te

It requires that complexity because a metric shit ton of scientific research shows that it is more complicated than that. Permanent weight loss of more than ten pounds is nearly impossible from a scientific standpoint. The success rate after 5 years of weight loss is somewhere around 0.1%. You'd think that if it was as easy as everyone claims, more people would succeed. Heck, many people who have had gastric bypass surgery regain a significant amount of weight, even if their stomachs have been reduced to the size of a ping pong ball.

paulpauper 3y ago
yup, the stomach gradually expands and the weight returns. Really hard to beat the body.
bodiekane 3y ago
My weight floats in a range that's 40-50 pounds lighter today than I was a decade ago. It's because I eat less and move more. Physically, weight-loss is utterly trivial. Literally everything that people say works, does. Eat less calories, eat less sugar, cut out snacking, cut out liquid calories, cut out processed food, reduce carbs, literally any and all of those work, choose whichever is most appealing to the individual. The challenge to weight and diet in America is mental and cultural. Obese people remain obese because they have unhealthy relationships with food and eat addictively or emotionally, using food to soothe anxiety, depression, loneliness, disappointment, etc and because cultural norms and advertising have normalized obesity-causing diets. Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.
- vkazanov 3y ago
  Fully agree. The science of body metabolism is hard. But the rules for weight loss are simple: move more, eat less. For some people it's just "Move more, eat the same". "Eat less" means "less calories", volume can be the same - really helps. PS chips are a crime against humanity
  - thefz 3y ago
    Not even that, if you change what you eat, you can have a dramatic effect as well. Try cutting out carbs and sugar as much as possible, results in two weeks. Changing when you eat is a factor too.
    - vkazanov 3y ago
      I would suggest to be careful with cutting out things, this leads to bouncing back, like all dramatic changes. I noticed that carbs such as bread or pasta really help with food satisfaction, unlike fat-intence or protein foods. Remove sugar in secondary things: tea, coffee, soda. Understand the calorie count in carbs such as chips. East to the mild calorie deficit. Compensate with moderate excercise. And so on, setup new dietary habits one by one. It doesn't have to be painful!
      - SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
        > It doesn't have to be painful! Agreed; but it is work. And for a great many people, that is an issue.
        vkazanov 3y ago
        As many other things in life it cab be seen as work. My journey to effective body weight control was 10 years long. Misinformation is everywhere these days... But... it doesn't have to be hard. For me gamification of the calorie couting game and step counting worked surprisingly well.
- thefz 3y ago
  > Physically, weight-loss is utterly trivial. Literally everything that people say works, does. You can't say this on HN, where weight loss is a myth and the only way out is to take a crazy life-altering medicine. Exercise? PFFT. I walked a flight of stairs once, and did not lose a single gram.
vkazanov 3y ago
I understand that you don't mean 10 pounds in a strict sense but even 20 pounds is an easily achievable and sustainable goal for fellow overweight 40-something HN readers. It doesn't take more than restricted calorie intake and moderate excercise (walking, gym, etc). After a few cycles of gain/loss it becomes easier food consumption habits change
mmmmmbop 3y ago
Do you have a citation on that 0.1%? I'd love to learn more.
- thaanpaa 3y ago
  The number one in a thousand is simply a ballpark figure that is frequently used in nutritional science. There are literally hundreds of papers, and not all of them are good (you should look at the parameters because many of them are quite lax), but here are a few examples easily found online. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0306460384900546 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/030646... https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/(SICI)1098-108X(199709)22:2%3C203::AID-EAT13%3E3.0.CO;2-1 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/(SICI)1098-1... https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07315724.1999.10718897 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07315724.1999.10... https://europepmc.org/article/med/2663745 https://europepmc.org/article/med/2663745
  - epups 3y ago
    Perhaps you should read your own sources. From the abstract of the second study: "At the 3-year follow-up, 53% of the original sample (of 621 persons) maintained losses of 5% or more and 35% losses of 10% or more.". From the third study: "When successful weight maintenance was defined as maintaining a weight loss of 5% or 10% of initial (pre-treatment) body weight, 40% were maintaining a 5% weight loss at five years and 25% were maintaining a weight loss of 10% at 7 years." The other studies also don't back up your 0.1% estimate. Your initial statement is completely misleading and shockingly you have provided hard evidence against it.
    - thaanpaa 3y ago
      Perhaps you didn't read what I wrote. You really need to look at the parameters (as well as the data). A 5% weight loss for a 200-pound person equals 10 pounds. Anyone can achieve this by following a fad diet for a week or two.
      - 3y ago
nradov 3y ago
And yet I personally know several people who have dropped more than 10 pounds, and have kept it off (or even lost more) for more than 5 years. The statistical odds are meaningless on an individual basis. In most cases what it took was hitting some sort of low point and then making a major, permanent lifestyle change such as committing to a daily exercise program or quitting drinking (alcoholic drinks contain a lot of empty calories). https://www.hubermanlab.com/episode/david-goggins-how-to-build-immense-inner-strength https://www.hubermanlab.com/episode/david-goggins-how-to-bui...

paulpauper 3y ago

yup, the stomach gradually expands and the weight returns. Really hard to beat the body.

bodiekane 3y ago

My weight floats in a range that's 40-50 pounds lighter today than I was a decade ago. It's because I eat less and move more. Physically, weight-loss is utterly trivial. Literally everything that people say works, does. Eat less calories, eat less sugar, cut out snacking, cut out liquid calories, cut out processed food, reduce carbs, literally any and all of those work, choose whichever is most appealing to the individual. The challenge to weight and diet in America is mental and cultural. Obese people remain obese because they have unhealthy relationships with food and eat addictively or emotionally, using food to soothe anxiety, depression, loneliness, disappointment, etc and because cultural norms and advertising have normalized obesity-causing diets. Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.

vkazanov 3y ago
Fully agree. The science of body metabolism is hard. But the rules for weight loss are simple: move more, eat less. For some people it's just "Move more, eat the same". "Eat less" means "less calories", volume can be the same - really helps. PS chips are a crime against humanity
- thefz 3y ago
  Not even that, if you change what you eat, you can have a dramatic effect as well. Try cutting out carbs and sugar as much as possible, results in two weeks. Changing when you eat is a factor too.
  - vkazanov 3y ago
    I would suggest to be careful with cutting out things, this leads to bouncing back, like all dramatic changes. I noticed that carbs such as bread or pasta really help with food satisfaction, unlike fat-intence or protein foods. Remove sugar in secondary things: tea, coffee, soda. Understand the calorie count in carbs such as chips. East to the mild calorie deficit. Compensate with moderate excercise. And so on, setup new dietary habits one by one. It doesn't have to be painful!
    - SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
      > It doesn't have to be painful! Agreed; but it is work. And for a great many people, that is an issue.
      - vkazanov 3y ago
        As many other things in life it cab be seen as work. My journey to effective body weight control was 10 years long. Misinformation is everywhere these days... But... it doesn't have to be hard. For me gamification of the calorie couting game and step counting worked surprisingly well.
thefz 3y ago
> Physically, weight-loss is utterly trivial. Literally everything that people say works, does. You can't say this on HN, where weight loss is a myth and the only way out is to take a crazy life-altering medicine. Exercise? PFFT. I walked a flight of stairs once, and did not lose a single gram.

vkazanov 3y ago

I understand that you don't mean 10 pounds in a strict sense but even 20 pounds is an easily achievable and sustainable goal for fellow overweight 40-something HN readers. It doesn't take more than restricted calorie intake and moderate excercise (walking, gym, etc). After a few cycles of gain/loss it becomes easier food consumption habits change

mmmmmbop 3y ago

Do you have a citation on that 0.1%? I'd love to learn more.

thaanpaa 3y ago
The number one in a thousand is simply a ballpark figure that is frequently used in nutritional science. There are literally hundreds of papers, and not all of them are good (you should look at the parameters because many of them are quite lax), but here are a few examples easily found online. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0306460384900546 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/030646... https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/(SICI)1098-108X(199709)22:2%3C203::AID-EAT13%3E3.0.CO;2-1 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/(SICI)1098-1... https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07315724.1999.10718897 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07315724.1999.10... https://europepmc.org/article/med/2663745 https://europepmc.org/article/med/2663745
- epups 3y ago
  Perhaps you should read your own sources. From the abstract of the second study: "At the 3-year follow-up, 53% of the original sample (of 621 persons) maintained losses of 5% or more and 35% losses of 10% or more.". From the third study: "When successful weight maintenance was defined as maintaining a weight loss of 5% or 10% of initial (pre-treatment) body weight, 40% were maintaining a 5% weight loss at five years and 25% were maintaining a weight loss of 10% at 7 years." The other studies also don't back up your 0.1% estimate. Your initial statement is completely misleading and shockingly you have provided hard evidence against it.
  - thaanpaa 3y ago
    Perhaps you didn't read what I wrote. You really need to look at the parameters (as well as the data). A 5% weight loss for a 200-pound person equals 10 pounds. Anyone can achieve this by following a fad diet for a week or two.
    - 3y ago

nradov 3y ago

And yet I personally know several people who have dropped more than 10 pounds, and have kept it off (or even lost more) for more than 5 years. The statistical odds are meaningless on an individual basis. In most cases what it took was hitting some sort of low point and then making a major, permanent lifestyle change such as committing to a daily exercise program or quitting drinking (alcoholic drinks contain a lot of empty calories). https://www.hubermanlab.com/episode/david-goggins-how-to-build-immense-inner-strength https://www.hubermanlab.com/episode/david-goggins-how-to-bui...