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Imagine if Apple or Google were retroactively removing a feature. The shitstorm would be outrageous. Where I'm from, the same discussion appears every two year

Imagine if Apple or Google were retroactively removing a feature. The shitstorm would be outrageous. Where I'm from, the same discussion appears every two years, when the government tries once more to shutdown FM radio. Luckily, they always get shut down by the people. Maybe don't try to shut down public services that millions of people actually rely on.

ubercow13 3y ago
But that is not the same because radio spectrum is a very limited resource and those old uses are preventing newer uses. So the very limited bands of RF can only gain new uses say once per generation, as old FM radio users die out? Is that really a good trade-off?
- lxgr 3y ago
  FM radios are built into cars, hi-fi receivers etc. – things that people sometimes use for decades and more. Unlike for TVs, you also can't just add a set-top box to a car, for example. That said, I don't understand what's so hard about just running both digital and analog in parallel for 20 or even 30 years. This would create an incentive to upgrade to the new, digital standard (better quality, more programming etc.) without outright cutting millions of people and their legacy devices off. The US arguably did a better job transitioning to digital radio by using a digital system (HD radio) that seamlessly falls back to an analog AM or FM signal, and they have more constraints in terms of broadcast licensing restrictions than most other countries.
TheCoreh 3y ago
They do. As an example, over time older/weaker versions of TLS are gradually phased out. It's now difficult/impossible to access many websites from outdated devices without using a special proxy.
msh 3y ago
Google kills products every year. It also should not be a surprise to anyone that tech have an expiration date.
fsckboy 3y ago
>when the government tries once more to shutdown FM radio in the US, what killed FM radio is the death of independent stations with local DJs, replaced by nationwide corporate homogeneity
- galleywest200 3y ago
  May I suggest KEXP? Lister powered radio station. They have many unique shows throughout the week focusing on all sorts of genres. KEXP is broadcast in Seattle on 90.3FM, and coming to the Bay Area on 92.7FM in 2024. You can also listen live online at https://kexp.org/ https://kexp.org/, and they also keep their last two weeks of programming on their archive here: https://www.kexp.org/archive/ https://www.kexp.org/archive/.
  - mattl 3y ago
    There's also Pacifica radio https://pacificanetwork.org https://pacificanetwork.org which has a few stations around the country, but including WBAI https://wbai.org https://wbai.org which has had a hacker-themed and hacker-led show on the air regularly since 1989. https://2600.com/offthehook/archive_ra.html https://2600.com/offthehook/archive_ra.html
wcoenen 3y ago
> Imagine if Apple or Google were retroactively removing a feature. The shitstorm would be outrageous. Is this sarcasm? Just in case it is not: https://killedby.tech/google/ https://killedby.tech/google/
- pbhjpbhj 3y ago
  Are any of those examples of removing a feature from a hardware device, which to me seemed to be the point of the parent. They're comparing car entertainment/GPS systems with phones. Maybe 12 years ago, I had a device with sideloading that allowed me to run Plex (genuinely used for photo viewing). NowTV removed side-loading via a forced update and thus removed the principle reason I bought that device rather than another. Bought a FireTV stick after that and downloaded Plex from their appstore.
  - wcoenen 3y ago
    @Longhanks wasn't specifically talking about hardware. They said "Maybe don't try to shut down public services that millions of people actually rely on" and implied Google wouldn't do such a thing. Google did exactly this when it shut down Google Reader in 2013. Feedly saw an influx of 3 million new users in the two weeks following the shutdown. https://web.archive.org/web/20170721090528/https://blog.feedly.com/announcing-the-new-feedly-mobile-and-welcoming-3-million-reader-refugees/ https://web.archive.org/web/20170721090528/https://blog.feed...
  - dukeyukey 3y ago
    They've definitely bricked hardware before (e.g. Stadia, likely Jamboard).
mmsc 3y ago
Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft also regularly remove features from their consoles retroactively. You buy a subscription for access to them - and telecom networks - not the right to use them forever

ubercow13 3y ago

But that is not the same because radio spectrum is a very limited resource and those old uses are preventing newer uses. So the very limited bands of RF can only gain new uses say once per generation, as old FM radio users die out? Is that really a good trade-off?

lxgr 3y ago
FM radios are built into cars, hi-fi receivers etc. – things that people sometimes use for decades and more. Unlike for TVs, you also can't just add a set-top box to a car, for example. That said, I don't understand what's so hard about just running both digital and analog in parallel for 20 or even 30 years. This would create an incentive to upgrade to the new, digital standard (better quality, more programming etc.) without outright cutting millions of people and their legacy devices off. The US arguably did a better job transitioning to digital radio by using a digital system (HD radio) that seamlessly falls back to an analog AM or FM signal, and they have more constraints in terms of broadcast licensing restrictions than most other countries.

TheCoreh 3y ago

They do. As an example, over time older/weaker versions of TLS are gradually phased out. It's now difficult/impossible to access many websites from outdated devices without using a special proxy.

msh 3y ago

Google kills products every year. It also should not be a surprise to anyone that tech have an expiration date.

fsckboy 3y ago

>when the government tries once more to shutdown FM radio in the US, what killed FM radio is the death of independent stations with local DJs, replaced by nationwide corporate homogeneity

galleywest200 3y ago
May I suggest KEXP? Lister powered radio station. They have many unique shows throughout the week focusing on all sorts of genres. KEXP is broadcast in Seattle on 90.3FM, and coming to the Bay Area on 92.7FM in 2024. You can also listen live online at https://kexp.org/ https://kexp.org/, and they also keep their last two weeks of programming on their archive here: https://www.kexp.org/archive/ https://www.kexp.org/archive/.
- mattl 3y ago
  There's also Pacifica radio https://pacificanetwork.org https://pacificanetwork.org which has a few stations around the country, but including WBAI https://wbai.org https://wbai.org which has had a hacker-themed and hacker-led show on the air regularly since 1989. https://2600.com/offthehook/archive_ra.html https://2600.com/offthehook/archive_ra.html

wcoenen 3y ago

> Imagine if Apple or Google were retroactively removing a feature. The shitstorm would be outrageous. Is this sarcasm? Just in case it is not: https://killedby.tech/google/ https://killedby.tech/google/

pbhjpbhj 3y ago
Are any of those examples of removing a feature from a hardware device, which to me seemed to be the point of the parent. They're comparing car entertainment/GPS systems with phones. Maybe 12 years ago, I had a device with sideloading that allowed me to run Plex (genuinely used for photo viewing). NowTV removed side-loading via a forced update and thus removed the principle reason I bought that device rather than another. Bought a FireTV stick after that and downloaded Plex from their appstore.
- wcoenen 3y ago
  @Longhanks wasn't specifically talking about hardware. They said "Maybe don't try to shut down public services that millions of people actually rely on" and implied Google wouldn't do such a thing. Google did exactly this when it shut down Google Reader in 2013. Feedly saw an influx of 3 million new users in the two weeks following the shutdown. https://web.archive.org/web/20170721090528/https://blog.feedly.com/announcing-the-new-feedly-mobile-and-welcoming-3-million-reader-refugees/ https://web.archive.org/web/20170721090528/https://blog.feed...
- dukeyukey 3y ago
  They've definitely bricked hardware before (e.g. Stadia, likely Jamboard).

mmsc 3y ago

Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft also regularly remove features from their consoles retroactively. You buy a subscription for access to them - and telecom networks - not the right to use them forever