5 ms·

Do you feel the same about physical security? It's fine for people to walk around your building, peak in the windows, maybe pick the lock on the door, maybe eve

by jjeaff 3y ago

Do you feel the same about physical security? It's fine for people to walk around your building, peak in the windows, maybe pick the lock on the door, maybe even take a little walk inside, as long as they don't steal anything?

z3phyr 3y ago
Communes exist. The internet is supposed to be a giant commune of researchers watching each others backs.
bastawhiz 3y ago
If I owned a bunch of vending machines, and someone came to me and said "Hey, I found out that if you put a credit card in the dollar bill slot, it gives out free soda and empties all its coins through the return slot," I would a.) be pleased to have been informed and b.) not be upset that they did this. If a neighbor came to me and said, "Hey, your mailbox that's located at the end of your long dirt driveway is protected by a wafer lock that can be opened by simply slapping the side of the mailbox in a funny way," I would maybe wonder why they were slapping my mailbox but I would be grateful that they told me and I would want them to continue doing whatever weird shit they were doing (so long as it wasn't causing damage). When you put property in a public (or practically public) space, there's an expectation that it will not be treated as though it is on private property. There's a big difference between someone jiggling the door to your home (where you physically reside) and jiggling the lock on a mall gumball machine or the handle on a commercial fire exit.
DirkH 3y ago
There's a huge fucking difference between "yo, the neighbourhood and country is unsafe and there is no strongly upheld norm here of people not seeing if they can enter someone else's house if their door is easily unlockable. You must be new here since I noticed your door is pretty insecure, I recommend you do x,y and z if you are to live here safely. Take care." Versus "yo, I just entered your home and snooped around since it was easy to lockpick. There are actually strong norms here of people not doing this so I know this is quite the social violation and something like this had a very low probability of happening otherwise but, you know, your door is weak so it was my right to enter. You should fix it btw" The internet is like the former not the latter and taking a moral high ground stance that it just should be otherwise is just screaming underwater while doing nothing to actually protect yourself from an actual real threat. I'd be very thankful if I moved to some place I'm unfamiliar with where people lockpicking is just a cultural norm and someone warned me I should get a better door.
afterburner 3y ago
Weird, I don't feel nearly as touchy about some ones and zeros on a computer as I do my physical body's safety, without which I would not exist.
- idiotsecant 3y ago
  OK, make the comparison more direct, then. Say you have a filing cabinet with all of your important and \ or embarrassing documents in it. Are you OK with houseguests giving the handle a little wiggle when they come over to check if its locked? What about the neighborhood kids?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - filoleg 3y ago
    > Say you have a filing cabinet with all of your important and \ or embarrassing documents in it. Are you OK with houseguests giving the handle a little wiggle when they come over to check if its locked? What about the neighborhood kids? If i leave that filing cabinet in the middle of Times Square in Manhattan (which has an insane amount of foot traffic every day), then yes, I would expect plenty of people to give it a little wiggle to check if it’s locked. And I would be rightfully given a lot of questionable looks for complaining that passerbys stop to check it out or give it a wiggle. Having your service on the internet is not the same as having a filing a cabinet in your house. I think that the Times Square analogy is even underplaying it, given that on the internet, your audience is many many magnitudes larger and more remote/anonymous. On the other hand, if I had a private VLAN (that wasn’t exposed to the internet) on my home network, then I would be definitely annoyed if my houseguests would try and pentest it without asking.
  - wuiheerfoj 3y ago
    If I left my filing cabinet on the pavement outside my house, I ought to expect it to happen, and would thank a good samaritan telling me if I left it open
    - 3y ago
yard2010 3y ago
Would you drive over a group of people with a bus? Would you do it in GTA? There is a big difference between the digital world and the physical one. Many actions e.g stealing are very different in these 2 worlds and have very different implications.

by jjeaff 3y ago

z3phyr 3y ago

Communes exist. The internet is supposed to be a giant commune of researchers watching each others backs.

bastawhiz 3y ago

If I owned a bunch of vending machines, and someone came to me and said "Hey, I found out that if you put a credit card in the dollar bill slot, it gives out free soda and empties all its coins through the return slot," I would a.) be pleased to have been informed and b.) not be upset that they did this. If a neighbor came to me and said, "Hey, your mailbox that's located at the end of your long dirt driveway is protected by a wafer lock that can be opened by simply slapping the side of the mailbox in a funny way," I would maybe wonder why they were slapping my mailbox but I would be grateful that they told me and I would want them to continue doing whatever weird shit they were doing (so long as it wasn't causing damage). When you put property in a public (or practically public) space, there's an expectation that it will not be treated as though it is on private property. There's a big difference between someone jiggling the door to your home (where you physically reside) and jiggling the lock on a mall gumball machine or the handle on a commercial fire exit.

DirkH 3y ago

There's a huge fucking difference between "yo, the neighbourhood and country is unsafe and there is no strongly upheld norm here of people not seeing if they can enter someone else's house if their door is easily unlockable. You must be new here since I noticed your door is pretty insecure, I recommend you do x,y and z if you are to live here safely. Take care." Versus "yo, I just entered your home and snooped around since it was easy to lockpick. There are actually strong norms here of people not doing this so I know this is quite the social violation and something like this had a very low probability of happening otherwise but, you know, your door is weak so it was my right to enter. You should fix it btw" The internet is like the former not the latter and taking a moral high ground stance that it just should be otherwise is just screaming underwater while doing nothing to actually protect yourself from an actual real threat. I'd be very thankful if I moved to some place I'm unfamiliar with where people lockpicking is just a cultural norm and someone warned me I should get a better door.

afterburner 3y ago

Weird, I don't feel nearly as touchy about some ones and zeros on a computer as I do my physical body's safety, without which I would not exist.

idiotsecant 3y ago
OK, make the comparison more direct, then. Say you have a filing cabinet with all of your important and \ or embarrassing documents in it. Are you OK with houseguests giving the handle a little wiggle when they come over to check if its locked? What about the neighborhood kids?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- filoleg 3y ago
  > Say you have a filing cabinet with all of your important and \ or embarrassing documents in it. Are you OK with houseguests giving the handle a little wiggle when they come over to check if its locked? What about the neighborhood kids? If i leave that filing cabinet in the middle of Times Square in Manhattan (which has an insane amount of foot traffic every day), then yes, I would expect plenty of people to give it a little wiggle to check if it’s locked. And I would be rightfully given a lot of questionable looks for complaining that passerbys stop to check it out or give it a wiggle. Having your service on the internet is not the same as having a filing a cabinet in your house. I think that the Times Square analogy is even underplaying it, given that on the internet, your audience is many many magnitudes larger and more remote/anonymous. On the other hand, if I had a private VLAN (that wasn’t exposed to the internet) on my home network, then I would be definitely annoyed if my houseguests would try and pentest it without asking.
- wuiheerfoj 3y ago
  If I left my filing cabinet on the pavement outside my house, I ought to expect it to happen, and would thank a good samaritan telling me if I left it open
  - 3y ago

yard2010 3y ago

Would you drive over a group of people with a bus? Would you do it in GTA? There is a big difference between the digital world and the physical one. Many actions e.g stealing are very different in these 2 worlds and have very different implications.