5 ms·

Coming in at under $100 is a lofty goal, but if they make the hardware, I'll buy one. The Turris Omnia was close. I've been using (and previously contributing)

Coming in at under $100 is a lofty goal, but if they make the hardware, I'll buy one. The Turris Omnia was close. I've been using (and previously contributing) to OpenWrt for almost 10 years, it's an excellent project and deserves some spotlight, I really hope this gains some traction.

CyberDildonics 3y ago
Why would $100 be difficult? Router hardware is basically ancient arm cpus with five gigabit ethernet ports and wifi.
- justin66 3y ago
  Because everything other than the ancient arm CPUs and ethernet ports requires expertise and capital.
  - CyberDildonics 3y ago
    First, that doesn't make sense when there are full modern system boards that sell for a fraction of that individually. Second, why would you need something different that what routers are already doing? They are just trying to sell their own openWRT routers, the hardware has existed for a decade at or below $100, why would it be difficult for them to meet that?
    - applied_heat 3y ago
      They aren’t just trying to sell a router, they are trying to make available a fully open router without blobs right from boot, that is unbrickable, and selling it essentially at cost
      - CyberDildonics 3y ago
        Where are the numbers here? How does what you are saying connect to what is being talked about in a concrete way? You are talking about software and saying it has to cost $100 or more while there are $30 routers on amazon. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082HH24YY/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082HH24YY/
        dwater 3y ago
        This is more or less discussed in the link. They started looking at BananaPi products as a starting point, but have some requirements that existing boards don't fulfill. One in particular that probably precludes all of the $30 boards you're talking is: "that this router isabeautiful (sic) example of excellent GPL/LGPL compliance"
        d3w4s9 3y ago
        These routers are crap. Anyone who cares a tiny bit about their wireless connectivity won't buy this. And I don't think OpenWRT wants to associate their name with "low-quality" routers.
        CyberDildonics 3y ago
        What you are saying here is speculation. Most router's shortcoming is software. I've used cheap netgear routers with openwrt and they work incredibly well.
- wvh 3y ago
  If you get up to mass-scale production quantities, $100 might be feasible. I imagine small-scale production with little up-front capital and no guaranteed market might be lot more challenging. It's not software, you're going to need large orders to get good prices. I think about Meego/Jolla phone and tablet, Ubuntu Phone, Kobol Helios and tons of other projects that have either failed or are struggling due to market size and ecosystem. I've been running a Turris Omnia for the last few years, which I've been fairly happy with. Network performance is about average and the platform as a whole is certainly due for an update, but stability has been great, it receives regular upgrades, and I'm happy to pay more for a project that has an open mindset. Not sure many feel the same way about commodity network hardware though.
  - CyberDildonics 3y ago
    Even brand new routers, with all their markup, shipping included, that can already run openwrt, can be $64 https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-AC1750-Smart-Router-Gigabit/dp/B07N57MN6Q https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-AC1750-Smart-Router-Gigabit/d... https://openwrt.org/toh/netgear/r6350 https://openwrt.org/toh/netgear/r6350 Here is a new router for $30 with 5 gigabit ports and usb 3.0 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082HH24YY/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082HH24YY/
- mschuster91 3y ago
  Anything with radio involves a ton of expensive certification work. With something like a rpi that sells millions of units, that can be spread over way more units than something like this that (optimistically) gets sold to a few thousand nerds and that's it.
nickysielicki 3y ago
If they're selling it at cost, ~$100 is not so unrealistic. It's similar in specs to the GL-MT3000 from GL.iNet which retails for $109, albeit without some of the price-increasing niceties like NVME, redundant recovery flash, or built-in usb-to-serial converters: https://www.gl-inet.com/products/gl-mt3000/ https://www.gl-inet.com/products/gl-mt3000/
- anonymousiam 3y ago
  G.iNet is wholly based upon OpenWRT. They get the benefit of the free software and can undersell because they don't need to support it. I know I'm oversimplifying, but it's at least partially true. I'm a big fan of OpenWRT. I switched to it after running pfSense for a lot of years. Anyone can donate to the project here: https://openwrt.org/donate https://openwrt.org/donate
  - vladvasiliu 3y ago
    > I'm a big fan of OpenWRT. I switched to it after running pfSense for a lot of years. Anyone can donate to the project here: https://openwrt.org/donate https://openwrt.org/donate Would you care to go into why you chose it over pf/Opn Sense? Considering that you have to reinstall so it's not automatic, what makes it enough better to make the change worth your while? I'm currently running OpnSense for my personal routing and firewalling needs, and considered OpenWRT a few weeks ago (for linux driver support, but that's another story). In the end, I changed my nic and kept opnsense.
    - anonymousiam 3y ago
      Sure thing. I don't want to make any unfounded accusations, but I observed some unstable behavior on my pfSense installations. It wasn't clear if it had been hacked, or if it was just buggy, but it seemed more like a hack to me. Because it's installed as a proprietary blob from a "trusted" source, I couldn't do much troubleshooting. This was shortly after the opnSense mockery, which reduced my confidence in the professionalism of Netgate. https://www.reddit.com/r/homelab/comments/ssk8zj/til_in_2017_pfsense_netgate_had_to_hand_over/ https://www.reddit.com/r/homelab/comments/ssk8zj/til_in_2017... Also, while exploring other options, I found that OpenWRT provided much higher bandwidth on the same processor/memory footprint. I was able to reduce the VM CPU and memory allocations after switching. Finally, there were a number of features I needed that pfSense just did not support. One was IGMP snooping, another was IPv6 using a provider tunnel.
galcerte 3y ago
Call me crazy but I recall the Turris Omnia was 350 € last time I looked (~3 years ago). It could also take a fiber line as input, right?
- Shugyousha 3y ago
  Sounds about correct! I have one that I bought in 2018 but I remember it being more like 450+ € at the time. I have had a fiber line connected during the whole time and it has served me well (I haven't done much customizing on it though, I have to admit. It's just the router for my home network).

CyberDildonics 3y ago

Why would $100 be difficult? Router hardware is basically ancient arm cpus with five gigabit ethernet ports and wifi.

justin66 3y ago
Because everything other than the ancient arm CPUs and ethernet ports requires expertise and capital.
- CyberDildonics 3y ago
  First, that doesn't make sense when there are full modern system boards that sell for a fraction of that individually. Second, why would you need something different that what routers are already doing? They are just trying to sell their own openWRT routers, the hardware has existed for a decade at or below $100, why would it be difficult for them to meet that?
  - applied_heat 3y ago
    They aren’t just trying to sell a router, they are trying to make available a fully open router without blobs right from boot, that is unbrickable, and selling it essentially at cost
    - CyberDildonics 3y ago
      Where are the numbers here? How does what you are saying connect to what is being talked about in a concrete way? You are talking about software and saying it has to cost $100 or more while there are $30 routers on amazon. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082HH24YY/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082HH24YY/
      - dwater 3y ago
        This is more or less discussed in the link. They started looking at BananaPi products as a starting point, but have some requirements that existing boards don't fulfill. One in particular that probably precludes all of the $30 boards you're talking is: "that this router isabeautiful (sic) example of excellent GPL/LGPL compliance"
      - d3w4s9 3y ago
        These routers are crap. Anyone who cares a tiny bit about their wireless connectivity won't buy this. And I don't think OpenWRT wants to associate their name with "low-quality" routers.
        CyberDildonics 3y ago
        What you are saying here is speculation. Most router's shortcoming is software. I've used cheap netgear routers with openwrt and they work incredibly well.
wvh 3y ago
If you get up to mass-scale production quantities, $100 might be feasible. I imagine small-scale production with little up-front capital and no guaranteed market might be lot more challenging. It's not software, you're going to need large orders to get good prices. I think about Meego/Jolla phone and tablet, Ubuntu Phone, Kobol Helios and tons of other projects that have either failed or are struggling due to market size and ecosystem. I've been running a Turris Omnia for the last few years, which I've been fairly happy with. Network performance is about average and the platform as a whole is certainly due for an update, but stability has been great, it receives regular upgrades, and I'm happy to pay more for a project that has an open mindset. Not sure many feel the same way about commodity network hardware though.
- CyberDildonics 3y ago
  Even brand new routers, with all their markup, shipping included, that can already run openwrt, can be $64 https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-AC1750-Smart-Router-Gigabit/dp/B07N57MN6Q https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-AC1750-Smart-Router-Gigabit/d... https://openwrt.org/toh/netgear/r6350 https://openwrt.org/toh/netgear/r6350 Here is a new router for $30 with 5 gigabit ports and usb 3.0 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082HH24YY/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082HH24YY/
mschuster91 3y ago
Anything with radio involves a ton of expensive certification work. With something like a rpi that sells millions of units, that can be spread over way more units than something like this that (optimistically) gets sold to a few thousand nerds and that's it.

nickysielicki 3y ago

If they're selling it at cost, ~$100 is not so unrealistic. It's similar in specs to the GL-MT3000 from GL.iNet which retails for $109, albeit without some of the price-increasing niceties like NVME, redundant recovery flash, or built-in usb-to-serial converters: https://www.gl-inet.com/products/gl-mt3000/ https://www.gl-inet.com/products/gl-mt3000/

anonymousiam 3y ago
G.iNet is wholly based upon OpenWRT. They get the benefit of the free software and can undersell because they don't need to support it. I know I'm oversimplifying, but it's at least partially true. I'm a big fan of OpenWRT. I switched to it after running pfSense for a lot of years. Anyone can donate to the project here: https://openwrt.org/donate https://openwrt.org/donate
- vladvasiliu 3y ago
  > I'm a big fan of OpenWRT. I switched to it after running pfSense for a lot of years. Anyone can donate to the project here: https://openwrt.org/donate https://openwrt.org/donate Would you care to go into why you chose it over pf/Opn Sense? Considering that you have to reinstall so it's not automatic, what makes it enough better to make the change worth your while? I'm currently running OpnSense for my personal routing and firewalling needs, and considered OpenWRT a few weeks ago (for linux driver support, but that's another story). In the end, I changed my nic and kept opnsense.
  - anonymousiam 3y ago
    Sure thing. I don't want to make any unfounded accusations, but I observed some unstable behavior on my pfSense installations. It wasn't clear if it had been hacked, or if it was just buggy, but it seemed more like a hack to me. Because it's installed as a proprietary blob from a "trusted" source, I couldn't do much troubleshooting. This was shortly after the opnSense mockery, which reduced my confidence in the professionalism of Netgate. https://www.reddit.com/r/homelab/comments/ssk8zj/til_in_2017_pfsense_netgate_had_to_hand_over/ https://www.reddit.com/r/homelab/comments/ssk8zj/til_in_2017... Also, while exploring other options, I found that OpenWRT provided much higher bandwidth on the same processor/memory footprint. I was able to reduce the VM CPU and memory allocations after switching. Finally, there were a number of features I needed that pfSense just did not support. One was IGMP snooping, another was IPv6 using a provider tunnel.

galcerte 3y ago

Call me crazy but I recall the Turris Omnia was 350 € last time I looked (~3 years ago). It could also take a fiber line as input, right?

Shugyousha 3y ago
Sounds about correct! I have one that I bought in 2018 but I remember it being more like 450+ € at the time. I have had a fiber line connected during the whole time and it has served me well (I haven't done much customizing on it though, I have to admit. It's just the router for my home network).