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Samsung forecasts 85% drop in profit as chip sales falter
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y agoWill it translate to lower phone prices? Just went to Rio, now need a replacement phone:)
- iamthirsty 3y agoSamsung & Intel getting hammered, AMD & NVIDIA riding at their highest. Wild world we live in.
- asylteltine 3y agoNot surprising given their behavior. Intel stopped innovating around the time ryzen came out. Ryzen itself was an innovation. When was the last time Samsung innovated anything? Quantum dots are a revolution but not related to chips.
- joecool1029 3y agoAnyone that's owned both Samsung and TSMC fabbed chips in phones in the past 5 years just knows the Samsung ones run hot, are inferior to TSMC. They are the company you fallback to if you can't get it done on TSMC due to shortages.
- mathverse 3y agoI am sorry but that is incredibly simplistic view. Yes TSMC is better but this is a winnner takes all industry. Samsung has other problems since its its own customer for chips and has fingers in many other industries. It is still a wonder that they are basically the 2nd best fab in the world.
- wolverine876 3y agoAre you basing that on two phones you owned? Is there data out there?
- ksec 3y ago>When was the last time Samsung innovated anything? Ehm...... You may be using their DRAM or NAND.
- asylteltine 3y ago…okay well besides all that, what have the Romans done for us?
- iamthirsty 3y ago& Screen tech, possibly camera sensors/lenses — going beyond the original scope of the post, but still.
- stefan_ 3y agoSamsung just happens to be in commodity chip making. Don’t worry, the chip bosses will get together for a bottle of Soju, do some racketeering, SSDs and RAM will be expensive again but profits are going to be back.
- elorant 3y agoSSDs are already spiking. A 2TB Samsung Sata3 ssd went from €120 in October to €170 in December.
- jbverschoor 3y agoSo I'll just wait till they're 100..
- stefan_ 3y agoMaybe I have been too obscure in stating what’s going to happen: the oligopoly of SSD/RAM makers will collude explicitly or implicitly to cut production and raise prices. Because right know they are making a loss selling you a SSD, all of them. This is a cycle we have been through at least twice now.
- beebeepka 3y agoWell, they pretty much announced this months ago. The cycle continues as usual.
- antisthenes 3y agoNvidia just happens to be making mining picks during a gold rush. They also happened to be making mining picks during the previous gold/silver rush, mostly propped up by ETH PoW algo. It's a wild world, but NVDA also happened to be an extreme outlier in terms of hitting 2 gold rushes in a row.
- jraby3 3y agoArm is also killing it and at a high.
- HDThoreaun 3y agoIntel up 65% this year. Not too far from their all time high now.
- UncleOxidant 3y agoLooks like the all time high closing price for INTC was 73.94 way back in September of 2000. It's gotta go up about $26 to get back there - it's not close.
- sumtechguy 3y agoare your numbers right?
- PKop 3y agoI'm seeing 75.81
- UncleOxidant 3y agoWas that the intraday high? I'm not seeing anything that high on the google stock chart for INTC, but I can't seem to zoom in on that particular section of time to see if there was a small spike.
- UncleOxidant 3y agoGoing by the google chart for INTC. It seems clear that it's in the $70s - the point being that we're a long ways from INTC being in the $70s. (someone below saying it got to $75 and change - maybe that was an intraday high, not a closing high?)
- fswd 3y agoI think they did several stock splits, and this time period was one of them
- wredue 3y agoIf you look at intel history, they bounce like crazy. That said, I saw they were low and picked up a couple grand of intel in my playing tfsa and it’s been happy.
- ravenstine 3y agoThat's what happens when you spend too many decades making crummy products.
- bastardoperator 3y agoIs it just chips? Because their consumer appliance division seems to have huge problems. I bought a fridge and it was fully dead in under 6 months. I was able to get a full refund because they lost a class action lawsuit, but it's crazy how bad their appliances are, I don't trust samsung for anything, also: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2023/10/25/samsung-refrigerator-investigation-complaints-continue/70982873007/#:~:text=A%20federal%20class%2Daction%20lawsuit,dismiss%2C%20the%20legal%20action%20continues https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2023/10/2....
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Handprint4469 3y agoYup, had the same happen with a 3-month old washing machine. I'm sticking to Bosch from now on.
- sampo 3y agoIn washing machines, there is also LG (Korean). And in Europe, Electrolux/AEG.
- throwup238 3y agoSpeedQueens are beasts if you can afford it and their interfaces are downright quaint compared to the smart-crap everyone else makes. They're essentially all made for commercial customers so they almost never break with regular household usage and parts are easily available for repairs.
- f6v 3y ago> He noted that the chip sector is recovering at a slower-than-expected pace because the growth of shipment and prices centers around a few high-performing semiconductors at a time when overall demand for electronic devices remains weak. Ok, so was the demand higher during Covid and the market bounced back to normal?
- mschuster91 3y agoI'd rather say the market has issues thanks to inflation caused by the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the resulting interest rate hikes. "Luxuries" like TVs and phones are where people save the most when their economic future is uncertain.
- smcin 3y agoStop trying to blame things on Russia-Ukraine: high inflation was always foreseeable as the end of a decade of artificially low US interest rates; here's nytimes.com from 4/26/2018 "The Era of Very Low Inflation and Interest Rates May Be Near an End" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16934387 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16934387
- mschuster91 3y agoThe R-U invasion was undeniably the event that set off the explosive rate hike that was enacted as a counter towards the exploding inflation which was directly caused by the invasion skyrocketing electricity and gas prices.
- smcin 3y agoYou know that inflation exploded back in early 2021, already.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y agoBig pet peeve is when journalists highlight the percentage change in profit in the headline just because it's a bigger, scarier number. Big companies swing from profits to losses (and vice versa) all the time, but you rarely see it highlighted as "Profits drop 158%!" because (a) that doesn't really make sense, but more importantly (b) it highlights how dumb it is to use percentage change in profit in the first place. The more useful metric is given in the article: revenue was down 14.6 percent on year.
- rat9988 3y agoI find the profit metric more useful.
- Spartan-S63 3y agoWhy? Profit is the difference between revenue and expenses. Samsung could simultaneously see an increase in expenses and a reduction in revenue. Only the latter shows a true market slowdown. The former shows Samsung either investing in future R&D or experiencing larger inefficiencies. If the story is that the market is slowing, a revenue forecast is more helpful. If the story is that Samsung is investing in R&D, sure, profit works, but it requires an explanation of where the operating income is being spent. If the story is Samsung is poorly run, then profit works, but an additional explanation of where the inefficiencies are is required.
- _ea1k 3y agoIt is definitely useful, but not as a direct proxy for demand.
- jason-phillips 3y agoExactly. Historically semiconductors don't generate much profit. 2% profit would be a banner year for Samsung. 85% reduction from that would not be that notable.
- alephnerd 3y agoSamsung also suffered from the Japan-South Korea trade war that caused Samsung and other South Korean companies to lose preferential access to Japan, which lead to Japanese manufacturers pivoting to alternative suppliers.
- PedroBatista 3y agoI think is more a "Samsung" problem then anything else other than the slowdown in consumer appliances. Not really a chips problem by itself, which becomes a problem since they produce a lot of chips for their own appliances ( which had been developing a reputation for being over-complicated dogshit trash that breaks in 2 years or less ). The real trouble ( and opportunities ) will arrive when all those new fabs come online in the next couple years.
- kypro 3y agoIt dropped 95% just last year... https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/27/samsung-earnings-q1-2023.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/27/samsung-earnings-q1-2023.htm...
- mrcwinn 3y agoI feel like I've seen this headline several times over the past couple years. Are there any profits left to further decline?
- SergeAx 3y agoI don't understand. Two years ago there was an outcry about chip shortage, car manufacturers forced to produce cars without luxury options requiring chips, appliance manufacturers trying to re-engineer their products around less deficit chips. And now this.