3 ms·

Force it to develop actually new airplane, not rely on grandfathered type license from 60 years ago.

selectodude 3y ago
They keep trying to do that. This mess of a plane is care of Southwest and Ryanair who wanted a re-engined 737, period.
_jal 3y ago
I don't know that they could. We're talking about Boeing, they're the sort of MBA hive that's embarrassed to have to employ engineers.
Scoundreller 3y ago
I wonder what automotive designs would look like if we allowed that kind of grandfathering. Or maybe we do but people keep wanting new car designs?
- RandallBrown 3y ago
  We don't really get many new car designs do we? Aren't most cars just built on top of old platforms that only see iterative updates?
  - toast0 3y ago
    I think a 2024 Boeing 737 Max is a lot closer to a 1968 737 original than a 2024 Honda Civic is to a 1972 Honda Civic. Car platforms change a lot more, a lot more often, IMHO.
    - loloquwowndueo 3y ago
      I think you would be mistaken. The car’s engines probably have more in common than the two planes’ engines (low-bypass turbofans in the original, vs. latest high-bypass on the newest ones; engines so different that they changed the plane’s handling enough to require the maligned MCAS). Avionics are entirely different and arguably much more vital to the planes function than a car’s instruments. The interiors are also basically not comparable (sure they have seats but that’s about it).
- wahern 3y ago
  Deliberate or not, the NHTSA and automakers have found a symbiotic relationship where mandatory safety requirements become integral to a planned obsolescence sales cycle. Cars are more reliable and longer lasting than ever, but safety features mean many people feel compelled to buy a new car much sooner than they might have 30 or 40 years ago. Automakers negotiate with the NHTSA to set mandatory safety feature timelines so that features can work their way from luxury models down over the course of several years. By the time a features becomes mandatory, it's already been milked as a sales differentiator, and trickled down into most if not all car models. I don't know if such a state of affairs is possible with the aircraft or airline industries. Those industries are too rational, whereas the expense of safety features in the consumer automobile market is in part quietly covered by arguably irrational consumer spending habits.

They keep trying to do that. This mess of a plane is care of Southwest and Ryanair who wanted a re-engined 737, period.

_jal 3y ago

I don't know that they could. We're talking about Boeing, they're the sort of MBA hive that's embarrassed to have to employ engineers.

Scoundreller 3y ago

I wonder what automotive designs would look like if we allowed that kind of grandfathering. Or maybe we do but people keep wanting new car designs?

RandallBrown 3y ago
We don't really get many new car designs do we? Aren't most cars just built on top of old platforms that only see iterative updates?
- toast0 3y ago
  I think a 2024 Boeing 737 Max is a lot closer to a 1968 737 original than a 2024 Honda Civic is to a 1972 Honda Civic. Car platforms change a lot more, a lot more often, IMHO.
  - loloquwowndueo 3y ago
    I think you would be mistaken. The car’s engines probably have more in common than the two planes’ engines (low-bypass turbofans in the original, vs. latest high-bypass on the newest ones; engines so different that they changed the plane’s handling enough to require the maligned MCAS). Avionics are entirely different and arguably much more vital to the planes function than a car’s instruments. The interiors are also basically not comparable (sure they have seats but that’s about it).
wahern 3y ago
Deliberate or not, the NHTSA and automakers have found a symbiotic relationship where mandatory safety requirements become integral to a planned obsolescence sales cycle. Cars are more reliable and longer lasting than ever, but safety features mean many people feel compelled to buy a new car much sooner than they might have 30 or 40 years ago. Automakers negotiate with the NHTSA to set mandatory safety feature timelines so that features can work their way from luxury models down over the course of several years. By the time a features becomes mandatory, it's already been milked as a sales differentiator, and trickled down into most if not all car models. I don't know if such a state of affairs is possible with the aircraft or airline industries. Those industries are too rational, whereas the expense of safety features in the consumer automobile market is in part quietly covered by arguably irrational consumer spending habits.