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When we fire people we terminate ALL access. Digital and physical. When the call from HR comes in, your keycard is immediately disabled. If you left personal be

When we fire people we terminate ALL access. Digital and physical. When the call from HR comes in, your keycard is immediately disabled. If you left personal belongings, we'll box them up and give them to you.

suprjami 3y ago
I've always thought such policy heavy handed and unfair. This article proves that's not the case. I've heard vague stories of someone doing a malicious delete on the way out, but never seen it myself.
- devmor 3y ago
  Things like the occurrence in this article only occur because job termination is so heavy handed here. When people are immediately cut off from their income source without warning, in a society with very little social safety net, they get angry and do drastic things. In many, many other countries, letting someone go is a long process that involves a lot of time for both parties to shore things up and be prepared to move on without incident.
  - suprjami 3y ago
    That isn't true. Here in Australia the typical notice period is two weeks. That means if you want to leave, you write a resignation letter and you have time to hand over like you said. However the employer might also walk you out of the building and continue to pay you for two weeks. I've seen this happen here. In some companies it depends on the job you're resigning from. I happen to know my position at my company has the former sort of relaxed notice period, but other positions have the latter sort of strict notice period. It's very strange.
- AmVess 3y ago
  Yes. Some people can become very difficult when they've just lost their job. This is the primary reason why firings are done via e-mail so people can flip out and lose their cool at home.
- turtledragonfly 3y ago
  I don't think the article proves that. I think these policies can be a bit of a McNamara fallacy[1]. When things go wrong, the benefits of aggressive termination are clear. But when things don't go wrong (vast majority of time), the alternative's benefits are not so clear — employees have more time to hand-off their work, document things that are in their head, better good-will towards the company and its management, etc. So, because one approach has a clear, measurable benefit (avoid some disasters), and the other approach has un-clear hard-to-measure ones, people sometimes dismiss the hard-to-measure side as unimportant. That's the fallacy. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McNamara_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McNamara_fallacy
Johnny555 3y ago
The article doesn't say they fired him, it said he's an "ex-employee". I've stayed on in an hourly role with several companies I've left to be on-call for questions/problems for a month or 3 after leaving.
skocznymroczny 3y ago
As an European, I thought that's only something people did for movies, I learned not long ago that it's actually reality in the US. In Poland you can leave on the spot if you arrange it with the company (e.g. for a severence package). Otherwise by law you are expected to work for a month or two after getting fired (or when changing jobs). This has some benefits for both employer and employee. The employee has time to find a new job and doesn't get cut off from income on the spot so he's unlikely to burn bridges on his way out. For employer the benefit is the same but also the company gets extra time to prepare a replacement for the fired employee.
- MBCook 3y ago
  Unless there is a contract saying otherwise (or union agreement if in a union) you could show up to work at your job tomorrow to be told you’re fired and escorted out of the building. For well paying jobs it’s pretty rare unless you do something bad. Obviously if they just did that to random people it would really hurt morale and other workers may want to leave. But it’s legal. On the other side, with similar exceptions, on any day you can walk into your job and say goodbye forever and never come back.
  - dpflug 3y ago
    "Pretty rare unless you do something bad." Or there are layoffs.
    - MBCook 3y ago
      That’s fair. I was thinking of when they single out a single person.
  - alistairSH 3y ago
    on any day you can walk into your job and say goodbye forever and never come back Except in reality, almost nobody can do that, because they need to eat and pay rent. And if you did, you'd burn a lot of bridges.
    - 3y ago
kstrauser 3y ago
The wise will insist that ex-employers do this, if not immediately, then over a very small number of hours. If I'm to be let go, I want all of my access to go away ASAP. That means they can't blame me for things that go missing afterward (minus logic bombs and other kinds of criminality that we do not do, ever, ok?). The last thing I want is for, say, a computer to go missing a week after I left but when I still have an office key, or data to be deleted while I still have AWS access. Take my keys, OK?
johnwalkr 3y ago
You may think so but in IT or especially industries that "have" IT but are not IT, who knows what people/teams have installed or are using without you knowing.
cortesoft 3y ago
If you are fired, sure, but that usually doesn't happen if someone voluntarily leaves. You usually set an end date, and work on transitioning your work during that time.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  Depends, some places will just pay you to stay home during your notice period and disable all your access and accounts immediately upon you providing your notice.

suprjami 3y ago

I've always thought such policy heavy handed and unfair. This article proves that's not the case. I've heard vague stories of someone doing a malicious delete on the way out, but never seen it myself.

devmor 3y ago
Things like the occurrence in this article only occur because job termination is so heavy handed here. When people are immediately cut off from their income source without warning, in a society with very little social safety net, they get angry and do drastic things. In many, many other countries, letting someone go is a long process that involves a lot of time for both parties to shore things up and be prepared to move on without incident.
- suprjami 3y ago
  That isn't true. Here in Australia the typical notice period is two weeks. That means if you want to leave, you write a resignation letter and you have time to hand over like you said. However the employer might also walk you out of the building and continue to pay you for two weeks. I've seen this happen here. In some companies it depends on the job you're resigning from. I happen to know my position at my company has the former sort of relaxed notice period, but other positions have the latter sort of strict notice period. It's very strange.
AmVess 3y ago
Yes. Some people can become very difficult when they've just lost their job. This is the primary reason why firings are done via e-mail so people can flip out and lose their cool at home.
turtledragonfly 3y ago
I don't think the article proves that. I think these policies can be a bit of a McNamara fallacy[1]. When things go wrong, the benefits of aggressive termination are clear. But when things don't go wrong (vast majority of time), the alternative's benefits are not so clear — employees have more time to hand-off their work, document things that are in their head, better good-will towards the company and its management, etc. So, because one approach has a clear, measurable benefit (avoid some disasters), and the other approach has un-clear hard-to-measure ones, people sometimes dismiss the hard-to-measure side as unimportant. That's the fallacy. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McNamara_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McNamara_fallacy

Johnny555 3y ago

The article doesn't say they fired him, it said he's an "ex-employee". I've stayed on in an hourly role with several companies I've left to be on-call for questions/problems for a month or 3 after leaving.

skocznymroczny 3y ago

As an European, I thought that's only something people did for movies, I learned not long ago that it's actually reality in the US. In Poland you can leave on the spot if you arrange it with the company (e.g. for a severence package). Otherwise by law you are expected to work for a month or two after getting fired (or when changing jobs). This has some benefits for both employer and employee. The employee has time to find a new job and doesn't get cut off from income on the spot so he's unlikely to burn bridges on his way out. For employer the benefit is the same but also the company gets extra time to prepare a replacement for the fired employee.

MBCook 3y ago
Unless there is a contract saying otherwise (or union agreement if in a union) you could show up to work at your job tomorrow to be told you’re fired and escorted out of the building. For well paying jobs it’s pretty rare unless you do something bad. Obviously if they just did that to random people it would really hurt morale and other workers may want to leave. But it’s legal. On the other side, with similar exceptions, on any day you can walk into your job and say goodbye forever and never come back.
- dpflug 3y ago
  "Pretty rare unless you do something bad." Or there are layoffs.
  - MBCook 3y ago
    That’s fair. I was thinking of when they single out a single person.
- alistairSH 3y ago
  on any day you can walk into your job and say goodbye forever and never come back Except in reality, almost nobody can do that, because they need to eat and pay rent. And if you did, you'd burn a lot of bridges.
  - 3y ago

kstrauser 3y ago

The wise will insist that ex-employers do this, if not immediately, then over a very small number of hours. If I'm to be let go, I want all of my access to go away ASAP. That means they can't blame me for things that go missing afterward (minus logic bombs and other kinds of criminality that we do not do, ever, ok?). The last thing I want is for, say, a computer to go missing a week after I left but when I still have an office key, or data to be deleted while I still have AWS access. Take my keys, OK?

johnwalkr 3y ago

You may think so but in IT or especially industries that "have" IT but are not IT, who knows what people/teams have installed or are using without you knowing.

cortesoft 3y ago

If you are fired, sure, but that usually doesn't happen if someone voluntarily leaves. You usually set an end date, and work on transitioning your work during that time.

SoftTalker 3y ago
Depends, some places will just pay you to stay home during your notice period and disable all your access and accounts immediately upon you providing your notice.