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Yet many still deny there is an issue with jobs and keep asking for more lenient immigration policies. There is no shortage of IT workers. There is/was a shorta

Yet many still deny there is an issue with jobs and keep asking for more lenient immigration policies. There is no shortage of IT workers. There is/was a shortage of workers who were willing to work for peanuts.

selfmodruntime 3y ago
How people still believe that importing masses of immigrants from poorer nations who are used to a fraction of the standard of living and will be contempt with much less money has no effect on employment / wages is beyond me.
- achates 3y ago
  We even have an example of what a train wreck it is in Canada, with stagnant productivity, a housing bubble and overcrowded public services. But we're determined to make the exact same mistakes.
  - kypro 3y ago
    The UK has been doing the same thing and has exactly the same problems.
  - vinniepukh 3y ago
    this is really annoying to read. go open the careers page for most mid-tier tech co’s (Coinbase, Rippling, Affirm) and count the number of SWE jobs in India/Latam/Eastern Europe vs the U.S. Say you get your wish of no immigration. How are you going to force these companies to not hire abroad instead? At least if the worker who competes with you is in the U.S., they have the same cost structure as you and won’t undercut you as much or at all on wage.
    - Boatfaceing 3y ago
      [dead]
- hasty_pudding 3y ago
  They do it for VOTES in the short term, not realizing or not caring in the long term it's actually destabilizing the country. and it's not one party or another either. it's both parties.
yesiamyourdad 3y ago
This is the part that's left out of every statement that starts with "There's a shortage of workers in industry X" ... "willing to accept the current wages / working conditions". Similar for "jobs Americans won't do"... "at the wages being offered". It drives me insane that people freely accept the concept of supply and demand, except when it comes to labor.
- boplicity 3y ago
  There's a second part to this argument. There would be riots, for example, if agricultural workers were paid rates that would make Americans willing to do this. If you think food inflation is bad now, that would be off the charts. Like it or not, we benefit from cheap labor, across many, many different industries.
  - kypro 3y ago
    Something I advocate for in the UK is that we should actively suppress wages of industries like healthcare and agricultural with cheap foreign labour, while providing access to good and affordable education so that native workers maximally benefit from the migrant labour underclass. Specifically I think we should bring foreign workers here on mass to work in specific industries then deport them if they're unable to find work. We should ensure they're not allowed to work in other industries to reduce labour competition with natives working in sectors for which we don't want to suppress wages. That said, some people disagree with the ethics of importing a migrant underclass which we're knowingly underpaying, but I'd agree with you that the current system benefits us, although it could be better with more immigration and labour controls.
    - chii 3y ago
      > some people disagree with the ethics of importing a migrant underclass and those very same people would also "disagree" with higher prices for essential goods/services.
      - kypro 3y ago
MerManMaid 3y ago
>Yet many still deny there is an issue with jobs and keep asking for more lenient immigration policies. There is no shortage of IT workers. There is/was a shortage of workers who were willing to work for peanuts. This isn't an argument against immigration as I'm incredibly pro. That said, trying to sell people on immigration based off the premise that it'd provide them with more minority groups we could exploit into accepting lower wages feels morally bankrupt.
qaq 3y ago
You do realize most large companies have offices in India, Canada, Ireland etc.? They don't have to hire specifically in US.
vinniepukh 3y ago
I’d much rather compete with an immigrant who is in the U.S. and has the same cost structure as me than we someone based in India/LATAM and will undercut me on wage 3x.
dangus 3y ago
Immigration in the US boosts birth rates to an essentially ideal level. Without immigration we would be dealing with significant population bust issues. https://theconversation.com/the-dip-in-the-us-birthrate-isnt-a-crisis-but-the-fall-in-immigration-may-be-161169 https://theconversation.com/the-dip-in-the-us-birthrate-isnt... It’s also my understanding that the people asking for more lenient immigration policies are essentially asking for more humane treatment of migrants (refrain from breaking up families, for example) and more effective processing, not typically advocating for an open border or an increase in overall immigration. Remember that the meaning of “sanctuary city” is the refusal to cooperate with federal enforcement agencies like ICE that have a documented history of abusive practices. “Sanctuary city” was never intended to be an open invitation for immigration. Instead it’s intended to encourage the immigrants who are already here to do beneficial things like report crimes and enroll kids in school rather than existing off the books in an underground seedy under the table situation.

selfmodruntime 3y ago

How people still believe that importing masses of immigrants from poorer nations who are used to a fraction of the standard of living and will be contempt with much less money has no effect on employment / wages is beyond me.

achates 3y ago
We even have an example of what a train wreck it is in Canada, with stagnant productivity, a housing bubble and overcrowded public services. But we're determined to make the exact same mistakes.
- kypro 3y ago
  The UK has been doing the same thing and has exactly the same problems.
- vinniepukh 3y ago
  this is really annoying to read. go open the careers page for most mid-tier tech co’s (Coinbase, Rippling, Affirm) and count the number of SWE jobs in India/Latam/Eastern Europe vs the U.S. Say you get your wish of no immigration. How are you going to force these companies to not hire abroad instead? At least if the worker who competes with you is in the U.S., they have the same cost structure as you and won’t undercut you as much or at all on wage.
  - Boatfaceing 3y ago
    [dead]
hasty_pudding 3y ago
They do it for VOTES in the short term, not realizing or not caring in the long term it's actually destabilizing the country. and it's not one party or another either. it's both parties.

yesiamyourdad 3y ago

This is the part that's left out of every statement that starts with "There's a shortage of workers in industry X" ... "willing to accept the current wages / working conditions". Similar for "jobs Americans won't do"... "at the wages being offered". It drives me insane that people freely accept the concept of supply and demand, except when it comes to labor.

boplicity 3y ago
There's a second part to this argument. There would be riots, for example, if agricultural workers were paid rates that would make Americans willing to do this. If you think food inflation is bad now, that would be off the charts. Like it or not, we benefit from cheap labor, across many, many different industries.
- kypro 3y ago
  Something I advocate for in the UK is that we should actively suppress wages of industries like healthcare and agricultural with cheap foreign labour, while providing access to good and affordable education so that native workers maximally benefit from the migrant labour underclass. Specifically I think we should bring foreign workers here on mass to work in specific industries then deport them if they're unable to find work. We should ensure they're not allowed to work in other industries to reduce labour competition with natives working in sectors for which we don't want to suppress wages. That said, some people disagree with the ethics of importing a migrant underclass which we're knowingly underpaying, but I'd agree with you that the current system benefits us, although it could be better with more immigration and labour controls.
  - chii 3y ago
    > some people disagree with the ethics of importing a migrant underclass and those very same people would also "disagree" with higher prices for essential goods/services.
    - kypro 3y ago

MerManMaid 3y ago

>Yet many still deny there is an issue with jobs and keep asking for more lenient immigration policies. There is no shortage of IT workers. There is/was a shortage of workers who were willing to work for peanuts. This isn't an argument against immigration as I'm incredibly pro. That said, trying to sell people on immigration based off the premise that it'd provide them with more minority groups we could exploit into accepting lower wages feels morally bankrupt.

qaq 3y ago

You do realize most large companies have offices in India, Canada, Ireland etc.? They don't have to hire specifically in US.

vinniepukh 3y ago

I’d much rather compete with an immigrant who is in the U.S. and has the same cost structure as me than we someone based in India/LATAM and will undercut me on wage 3x.

dangus 3y ago

Immigration in the US boosts birth rates to an essentially ideal level. Without immigration we would be dealing with significant population bust issues. https://theconversation.com/the-dip-in-the-us-birthrate-isnt-a-crisis-but-the-fall-in-immigration-may-be-161169 https://theconversation.com/the-dip-in-the-us-birthrate-isnt... It’s also my understanding that the people asking for more lenient immigration policies are essentially asking for more humane treatment of migrants (refrain from breaking up families, for example) and more effective processing, not typically advocating for an open border or an increase in overall immigration. Remember that the meaning of “sanctuary city” is the refusal to cooperate with federal enforcement agencies like ICE that have a documented history of abusive practices. “Sanctuary city” was never intended to be an open invitation for immigration. Instead it’s intended to encourage the immigrants who are already here to do beneficial things like report crimes and enroll kids in school rather than existing off the books in an underground seedy under the table situation.