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All of that is true, but it was true before Elon took over, now they just have fewer employees to pay, so if they can turn the advertising back around, they'll

All of that is true, but it was true before Elon took over, now they just have fewer employees to pay, so if they can turn the advertising back around, they'll be in a better cashflow situation.

acdha 3y ago
You’re leaving out the massive amount of debt he added to the company as part of the buyout. That means they need to do something like triple their most profitable quarter just to be where they were before the buyout.
- Jensson 3y ago
  But that has nothing to do with the layoffs.
  - acdha 3y ago
    Nobody said it did? I was responding to a claim that they could end up in a better financial situation because they have fewer staff, which would be an easier argument if there weren’t so many extra billions in debt on the balance sheet now.
manuelabeledo 3y ago
> ... now they just have fewer employees to pay, so if they can turn the advertising back around, they'll be in a better cashflow situation They cut ~$1B in operating expenses, to go from $4.73B to $3.31B in advertising revenue, and forecasts don't look much better [0] What has Twitter left to offer? They don't have the manpower to add new functionality, and they are bleeding advertising money. [0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/271337/twitters-advertising-revenue-worldwide https://www.statista.com/statistics/271337/twitters-advertis...
- linuxftw 3y ago
  Twitter could have fired nobody and the advertising revenue would have still declined, those two things were mostly unrelated. I've never personally believed in Twitter as a business model, so you're preaching to the choir there. As far as innovation, though, Elon has stated he wants X to be the 'everything app' similar to whatever it is they use in China, in particular payments.
  - lesuorac 3y ago
    > Twitter could have fired nobody and the advertising revenue would have still declined, those two things were mostly unrelated. They're not unrelated. Advertisers like to know that their ads work; you need staff to do that. Look at how much tailored the FaceBook ads were vs Twitter [1]. Advertisers would be sticking with Twitter if they thought the ads were worth it. > Facebook targeting allows advertisers to drill down, ensuring your ad is targeted at those most interested in your ads’ content. > The Facebook ad targeting based on interests looked like this: > Science > Mari Smith > Joel Comm > Social science > HootSuite > Post Planner > Smart Passive Income with Pat Flynn > Kim Garst > Sprout Social > Social Media Examiner > Buffer > Twitter’s targeting is not quite as refined, but we targeted these keywords: > instagrammarketing > socialmediamarketing > socialmediaexaminer [1]: https://www.agorapulse.com/social-media-lab/twitter-ads-cpc-facebook-cpc/ https://www.agorapulse.com/social-media-lab/twitter-ads-cpc-...
    - linuxftw 3y ago
      Facebook's features really don't have much to do with advertisers leaving due to twitter firing a bunch of employees.
      - lesuorac 3y ago
        FaceBook's features are just an example of how bad Twitter's targeting is; but also it is a zero-sum market. Nike has an advertising budget; if those dollars go to FaceBook they don't go to Twitter. Having worse engineering than your competition is a real problem. However, my point is that the top parent's claim of Twitter's problems aren't engineering is wrong. Their targeting is god awful to the point that Advertisers don't want to bother with it anymore. If they had better ad targeting (aka Engineering) then Advertisers would sweep the problems under the rug. There are also many non-engineering examples of this. - "If Jeffrey Dahmer ran a 4.3, we'd call it an 'eating disorder.'" - Russian Oil / Gas is still buyable by western countries. - Lack of repercussions for Jamal Khasoggi assassination [1] - Massive amounts of advertising on FaceBook post-Cambridge Analytica - USA Companies selling your active location (to journalists pretending to be not-journalists). [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Jamal_Khashoggi#Economic_and_political_boycotts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Jamal_Khashog...
- chii 3y ago
  > They don't have the manpower to add new functionality or may be they dont need new functionality. It works fine as it is today. What twitter needs is revenue sources, and i don't see how they are going to get it.
thinkingtoilet 3y ago
It was not. They are losing far more money because they removed the content moderation team and advertisers don't like their brands showing up next to questionable content. The buyout added a ton of debt to Twitter. It's far worse now.

All of that is true, but it was true before Elon took over, now they just have fewer employees to pay, so if they can turn the advertising back around, they'll be in a better cashflow situation.

acdha 3y ago

You’re leaving out the massive amount of debt he added to the company as part of the buyout. That means they need to do something like triple their most profitable quarter just to be where they were before the buyout.

Jensson 3y ago
But that has nothing to do with the layoffs.
- acdha 3y ago
  Nobody said it did? I was responding to a claim that they could end up in a better financial situation because they have fewer staff, which would be an easier argument if there weren’t so many extra billions in debt on the balance sheet now.

manuelabeledo 3y ago

> ... now they just have fewer employees to pay, so if they can turn the advertising back around, they'll be in a better cashflow situation They cut ~$1B in operating expenses, to go from $4.73B to $3.31B in advertising revenue, and forecasts don't look much better [0] What has Twitter left to offer? They don't have the manpower to add new functionality, and they are bleeding advertising money. [0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/271337/twitters-advertising-revenue-worldwide https://www.statista.com/statistics/271337/twitters-advertis...

linuxftw 3y ago
Twitter could have fired nobody and the advertising revenue would have still declined, those two things were mostly unrelated. I've never personally believed in Twitter as a business model, so you're preaching to the choir there. As far as innovation, though, Elon has stated he wants X to be the 'everything app' similar to whatever it is they use in China, in particular payments.
- lesuorac 3y ago
  > Twitter could have fired nobody and the advertising revenue would have still declined, those two things were mostly unrelated. They're not unrelated. Advertisers like to know that their ads work; you need staff to do that. Look at how much tailored the FaceBook ads were vs Twitter [1]. Advertisers would be sticking with Twitter if they thought the ads were worth it. > Facebook targeting allows advertisers to drill down, ensuring your ad is targeted at those most interested in your ads’ content. > The Facebook ad targeting based on interests looked like this: > Science > Mari Smith > Joel Comm > Social science > HootSuite > Post Planner > Smart Passive Income with Pat Flynn > Kim Garst > Sprout Social > Social Media Examiner > Buffer > Twitter’s targeting is not quite as refined, but we targeted these keywords: > instagrammarketing > socialmediamarketing > socialmediaexaminer [1]: https://www.agorapulse.com/social-media-lab/twitter-ads-cpc-facebook-cpc/ https://www.agorapulse.com/social-media-lab/twitter-ads-cpc-...
  - linuxftw 3y ago
    Facebook's features really don't have much to do with advertisers leaving due to twitter firing a bunch of employees.
    - lesuorac 3y ago
      FaceBook's features are just an example of how bad Twitter's targeting is; but also it is a zero-sum market. Nike has an advertising budget; if those dollars go to FaceBook they don't go to Twitter. Having worse engineering than your competition is a real problem. However, my point is that the top parent's claim of Twitter's problems aren't engineering is wrong. Their targeting is god awful to the point that Advertisers don't want to bother with it anymore. If they had better ad targeting (aka Engineering) then Advertisers would sweep the problems under the rug. There are also many non-engineering examples of this. - "If Jeffrey Dahmer ran a 4.3, we'd call it an 'eating disorder.'" - Russian Oil / Gas is still buyable by western countries. - Lack of repercussions for Jamal Khasoggi assassination [1] - Massive amounts of advertising on FaceBook post-Cambridge Analytica - USA Companies selling your active location (to journalists pretending to be not-journalists). [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Jamal_Khashoggi#Economic_and_political_boycotts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Jamal_Khashog...
chii 3y ago
> They don't have the manpower to add new functionality or may be they dont need new functionality. It works fine as it is today. What twitter needs is revenue sources, and i don't see how they are going to get it.

thinkingtoilet 3y ago

It was not. They are losing far more money because they removed the content moderation team and advertisers don't like their brands showing up next to questionable content. The buyout added a ton of debt to Twitter. It's far worse now.