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It's kinda sad that the website doesn't prominently display which features have "universal" support across iOS and Android. The whole point of PWAs is to provid

It's kinda sad that the website doesn't prominently display which features have "universal" support across iOS and Android. The whole point of PWAs is to provide cross platforms apps so if a feature isn't available on all/most platforms, I don't think it's fair to say that it's really usable at all in your PWA.

worksonmine 3y ago
Knowing what will come and be available is also a valid use case. If you want to know about support every feature has links to MDN and caniuse, just check there. The web isn't as simple as comparing iOS/Android. For example Firefox on desktop isn't Firefox on Android and Firefox on iOS is just Safari. The web is a complex ecosystem.
throwawaymaths 3y ago
Depends. What if your PWA is an in-house app for operators in your company? They all have an issued device with MDM, one or a few skus, all apple (or all Google). I think most in-house devs would rather not deal with the app store or the vagaries of getting the MDM side loading pathway working
pjmlp 3y ago
PWAs are the next step in mobile Web, for most forms over data apps, it isn't really needed. When I came back to Web/Distributed Systems after my stint dealing with Windows desktop, all the applications I have been involved only had Web frontends, including for mobile devices, not Web views, the actual browser. They managed perfectly fine.
- hotgeart 3y ago
  > PWAs are the next step in mobile Web For subscription app may be, but all ads revenue websites will reject it.
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    There are many types of applications out there besides ads.
  - HWR_14 3y ago
    Wouldn't that be the opposite? Subscriptions through the App stores, ads as PWA?
  - worik 3y ago
    > but all ads revenue websites will reject it. I reject them I cannot tolerate apps with ads
  - rchaud 3y ago
    "ad-driven websites" and PWAs aren't targeting the same user. Even if they were, there's nothing stopping a PWA developer from adding a Google Ads script to the markup.
ajross 3y ago
Doesn't https://caniuse.com https://caniuse.com already fill this need? This article is just evangelism, if you want technical sources the community has had you covered for a long time.
- MBCook 3y ago
  Sure you can look things up but it would be nice to look at this evangelism site and tell at a glance that Bluetooth isn’t supported everywhere the way playing a sound is.
  - ajross 3y ago
    To clarify what you're actually trying to say: Access to the low level Bluetooth device API is not as pervasively supported as audio output is. Quite clearly you can play audio to a bluetooth device in a PWA everywhere. And that kind of ambiguity is why you need to be using a rigorous source like caniuse and not just looking at summary statements for this kind of information.
    - MBCook 3y ago
      Right. Audio over BT just counts as audio, the BT permission means something mote like connect to and use arbitrary BT devices. I didn’t actually mean to compare BT vs BT audio in my original post, I just picked an example every browser will let you do. I hadn’t considered the crossover until I saw your reply.
onion2k 3y ago
The whole point of PWAs is to provide cross platforms apps so if a feature isn't available on all/most platforms, I don't think it's fair to say that it's really usable at all in your PWA. You should be delivering the best possible experience for the user based on what their device can do, not the lowest common denominator of some arbitrary set of features. Progressive enhancement, API detection, and polyfilling are all common strategies that can be used to mitigate almost all device differences.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  > Progressive enhancement, API detection, and polyfilling are all common strategies that can be used to mitigate almost all device differences. Keyword being "almost", and that in some cases if the platform doesn't support your feature, you're shit outta luck. By far the thing that prevented PWAs from bigger uptake earlier was Apple dragging their feet on push notifications support on iOS. There was simply no workaround or polyfill for that at all, and the biggest use case for PWAs was supporting push. Apple finally released web push notification support last year on iOS but the app needs to have already been installed on the home screen (I think that part is good), and last I checked the "install to home screen" on iOS Safari was still a horrible user experience (the actions is hidden under the "share" menu, which makes no sense to me).
  - CharlesW 3y ago
    > By far the thing that prevented PWAs from bigger uptake earlier was Apple dragging their feet on push notifications support on iOS. Is there any evidence that this moved the PWA needle at all, he said hopefully? I would've predicted no effect on PWA adoption. > …last I checked the "install to home screen" on iOS Safari was still a horrible user experience (the actions is hidden under the "share" menu, which makes no sense to me). For better or worse, it's how iOS users are trained to "do something" with the current web page. Keeping in mind that "PWA" is jargon that average users won't be familiar with, what would be easier than (1) tap Share, tap (2) Add to Home Screen?
    - ChadNauseam 3y ago
rchaud 3y ago
If you open the site on a target device, it'll tell you whether the feature works on that browser or not.
moffkalast 3y ago
> "universal" support Apple laughs at your universal support.
- alternatex 3y ago
  Apple spent a huge amount of time and money getting Safari in line with PWA standards in the past few years. Your comment would make sense 3 years ago when it was completely unclear whether Apple will flinch.
  - mdhb 3y ago
    It just happened to coincide with the moment the EU started looking quite seriously at what they were doing. They have tried to hobble the web as a platform for fairly obvious reasons for as long as they could. They don’t deserve any credit for whatever progress they made, it was done unwillingly at gunpoint.
    - moffkalast 3y ago
      "You mean to tell me there's this thing called the world wide web, where anyone can just host anything and all people need to access it is a few words typed into a program that runs on anything? They don't need to buy our proprietary iDevices?! They don't even need to pay us a yearly ransom to put their stuff onto our store?! But what if it's something we don't approve of? This is preposterous and I want it dead." - Tim Apple, probably I wonder what kind of preachy "we are so brave" excuse it will be this time now that they're finally forced to allow app sideloading by the EU and Japan.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

worksonmine 3y ago

Knowing what will come and be available is also a valid use case. If you want to know about support every feature has links to MDN and caniuse, just check there. The web isn't as simple as comparing iOS/Android. For example Firefox on desktop isn't Firefox on Android and Firefox on iOS is just Safari. The web is a complex ecosystem.

throwawaymaths 3y ago

Depends. What if your PWA is an in-house app for operators in your company? They all have an issued device with MDM, one or a few skus, all apple (or all Google). I think most in-house devs would rather not deal with the app store or the vagaries of getting the MDM side loading pathway working

pjmlp 3y ago

PWAs are the next step in mobile Web, for most forms over data apps, it isn't really needed. When I came back to Web/Distributed Systems after my stint dealing with Windows desktop, all the applications I have been involved only had Web frontends, including for mobile devices, not Web views, the actual browser. They managed perfectly fine.

hotgeart 3y ago
> PWAs are the next step in mobile Web For subscription app may be, but all ads revenue websites will reject it.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  There are many types of applications out there besides ads.
- HWR_14 3y ago
  Wouldn't that be the opposite? Subscriptions through the App stores, ads as PWA?
- worik 3y ago
  > but all ads revenue websites will reject it. I reject them I cannot tolerate apps with ads
- rchaud 3y ago
  "ad-driven websites" and PWAs aren't targeting the same user. Even if they were, there's nothing stopping a PWA developer from adding a Google Ads script to the markup.

ajross 3y ago

Doesn't https://caniuse.com https://caniuse.com already fill this need? This article is just evangelism, if you want technical sources the community has had you covered for a long time.

MBCook 3y ago
Sure you can look things up but it would be nice to look at this evangelism site and tell at a glance that Bluetooth isn’t supported everywhere the way playing a sound is.
- ajross 3y ago
  To clarify what you're actually trying to say: Access to the low level Bluetooth device API is not as pervasively supported as audio output is. Quite clearly you can play audio to a bluetooth device in a PWA everywhere. And that kind of ambiguity is why you need to be using a rigorous source like caniuse and not just looking at summary statements for this kind of information.
  - MBCook 3y ago
    Right. Audio over BT just counts as audio, the BT permission means something mote like connect to and use arbitrary BT devices. I didn’t actually mean to compare BT vs BT audio in my original post, I just picked an example every browser will let you do. I hadn’t considered the crossover until I saw your reply.

onion2k 3y ago

The whole point of PWAs is to provide cross platforms apps so if a feature isn't available on all/most platforms, I don't think it's fair to say that it's really usable at all in your PWA. You should be delivering the best possible experience for the user based on what their device can do, not the lowest common denominator of some arbitrary set of features. Progressive enhancement, API detection, and polyfilling are all common strategies that can be used to mitigate almost all device differences.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
> Progressive enhancement, API detection, and polyfilling are all common strategies that can be used to mitigate almost all device differences. Keyword being "almost", and that in some cases if the platform doesn't support your feature, you're shit outta luck. By far the thing that prevented PWAs from bigger uptake earlier was Apple dragging their feet on push notifications support on iOS. There was simply no workaround or polyfill for that at all, and the biggest use case for PWAs was supporting push. Apple finally released web push notification support last year on iOS but the app needs to have already been installed on the home screen (I think that part is good), and last I checked the "install to home screen" on iOS Safari was still a horrible user experience (the actions is hidden under the "share" menu, which makes no sense to me).
- CharlesW 3y ago
  > By far the thing that prevented PWAs from bigger uptake earlier was Apple dragging their feet on push notifications support on iOS. Is there any evidence that this moved the PWA needle at all, he said hopefully? I would've predicted no effect on PWA adoption. > …last I checked the "install to home screen" on iOS Safari was still a horrible user experience (the actions is hidden under the "share" menu, which makes no sense to me). For better or worse, it's how iOS users are trained to "do something" with the current web page. Keeping in mind that "PWA" is jargon that average users won't be familiar with, what would be easier than (1) tap Share, tap (2) Add to Home Screen?
  - ChadNauseam 3y ago

rchaud 3y ago

If you open the site on a target device, it'll tell you whether the feature works on that browser or not.

moffkalast 3y ago

> "universal" support Apple laughs at your universal support.

alternatex 3y ago
Apple spent a huge amount of time and money getting Safari in line with PWA standards in the past few years. Your comment would make sense 3 years ago when it was completely unclear whether Apple will flinch.
- mdhb 3y ago
  It just happened to coincide with the moment the EU started looking quite seriously at what they were doing. They have tried to hobble the web as a platform for fairly obvious reasons for as long as they could. They don’t deserve any credit for whatever progress they made, it was done unwillingly at gunpoint.
  - moffkalast 3y ago
    "You mean to tell me there's this thing called the world wide web, where anyone can just host anything and all people need to access it is a few words typed into a program that runs on anything? They don't need to buy our proprietary iDevices?! They don't even need to pay us a yearly ransom to put their stuff onto our store?! But what if it's something we don't approve of? This is preposterous and I want it dead." - Tim Apple, probably I wonder what kind of preachy "we are so brave" excuse it will be this time now that they're finally forced to allow app sideloading by the EU and Japan.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]