5 ms·

I think and I hope she wins; but a question for the non-American persons here: Do you still feel free to post any kind of criticism online nowadays? (e.g. Twit

by braza 3y ago

I think and I hope she wins; but a question for the non-American persons here: Do you still feel free to post any kind of criticism online nowadays? (e.g. Twitter, forums, etc.) At least from 2014, I feel less compelling to write anything marginally controversial online 'cause calculating the payoff between feel good to post something online versus the risk of being fired/doxxed/others is so asymmetrical that sometimes is better to go on the streets and/or talk with a representative in private than post it online.

mschuster91 3y ago
> Do you still feel free to post any kind of criticism online nowadays? (e.g. Twitter, forums, etc.) I do, but I have accepted that I will never ever visit the US for this reason, not for tourism, not for work - as long as CBP can refuse me entry for not disclosing my social media profiles (all of which are highly critical of the US government, particularly during the Trump era), I will not go and spend tens of thousands of dollars for flights, hotels and stuff when some random CBP agent can deny me on a whim. Up next on my "country shitlist" is China and Russia, I'd likely be imprisoned upon entry for the same reason. But it's easy to avoid these two countries - it's harder to evade the US as most flights towards Central and Southern America connect via the US, and you need a visa even for transit unlike in European airports.
- flandish 3y ago
  Wonder what would happen if you simply say “i have no profiles” and when presented with one with your image simply say “bot, not me.” Probably denied entry just the same.
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    Or, worse, they let you in, someone does a random check against NSA or whatever databases, finds out you lied and now you get deported and a permanent ban on reentry.
    - flandish 3y ago
      Yeah, I mean proving I lied is the hard part. If I want to tell Uncle Sam or a prospective employer I have no social media then that’s the whole point. :/ Your example is what will surely happen though at the most “opportune” time, too.
      - mschuster91 3y ago
        > If I want to tell Uncle Sam or a prospective employer I have no social media then that’s the whole point. :/ Not in a day where everyone's data is being sold around for pennies [1] for the private sector, and the NSA is monitoring the entire Internet anyway and I'd wager a significant amount of money that they have direct feeds to major ISPs allowing them to cross-reference IP addresses and other forms of identifiers to real persons. [1] https://www.washington.edu/news/2017/10/18/for-1000-anyone-can-purchase-online-ads-to-track-your-location-and-app-use/ https://www.washington.edu/news/2017/10/18/for-1000-anyone-c...
        flandish 3y ago
        All that does is track device usage not who is using it. Like red light cams mailing tickets to owners not drivers.
  - dekhn 3y ago
    Or had a burner profile with only pre-approved messages.
- slowmovintarget 3y ago
  I don't know if you heard that about the US CBP policy on a news story or something, but there are two forms you fill out for entry as a non-resident / non-immigrant, an I-192 [1] and upon entry, you get an I-94 record created [2]. Neither of these has anything on it about social media accounts, at all. Perhaps this is simply not a current understanding? [1]: https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/forms/i-192.pdf https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/forms/i-1... [2]: https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/CBP%20Form%20I-94%20English%20SAMPLE_Watermark.pdf https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/CBP%20Form...
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    I'm talking about ESTA, where CBP still wants you to name your social media profiles [1]. And if you use ESTA you automatically agree to waive your right to a review and appeal [2]. And the way I read it, for a more expensive tourist visa B-2 without ESTA I need a Form DS-160 [3] where it is mandatory as well ([4 page 19]), and to put the icing on the cake I can still be rejected by CBP. Oh, and in either case CBP can demand to ransack your phone and keep all data it contains [5]. There was some court decision recently [6] but I'm not sure just how binding this decision is in practice - and even if it were a "voluntary" search on paper, the CBP agent can still reject you for whatever reason with no right to appeal. At least one source claims that this is even the case for US citizens [7]! Absolutely bloody ridiculous. [1] https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/faq?lang=en&focusedTopic=About%20ESTA%20and%20The%20Visa%20Waiver%20Program&answerToDisplay=Who%20is%20eligible%20to%20submit%20an%20application%3F https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/faq?lang=en&focusedTopic=About%20ES... [2] https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/faq?lang=en&focusedTopic=About%20ESTA%20and%20The%20Visa%20Waiver%20Program&answerToDisplay=Who%20is%20eligible%20to%20submit%20an%20application%3F https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/faq?lang=en&focusedTopic=About%20ES... [3] https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/tourism-visit/visitor.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/tourism-... [4] https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/PDF-other/DS-160-Example_11-19-2020.pdf https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/PDF-other/DS-160-... [5] https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/09/18/phone-data-privacy-customs/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/09/18/phone-d... [6] https://www.eff.org/de/deeplinks/2023/05/federal-judge-makes-history-holding-border-searches-cell-phones-require-warrant https://www.eff.org/de/deeplinks/2023/05/federal-judge-makes... [7] https://informationsecurity.princeton.edu/sites/g/files/toruqf1121/files/searches_of_electronic_devices_at_the_border_-_faqs_-_march_2017_0.pdf https://informationsecurity.princeton.edu/sites/g/files/toru...

by braza 3y ago

mschuster91 3y ago

> Do you still feel free to post any kind of criticism online nowadays? (e.g. Twitter, forums, etc.) I do, but I have accepted that I will never ever visit the US for this reason, not for tourism, not for work - as long as CBP can refuse me entry for not disclosing my social media profiles (all of which are highly critical of the US government, particularly during the Trump era), I will not go and spend tens of thousands of dollars for flights, hotels and stuff when some random CBP agent can deny me on a whim. Up next on my "country shitlist" is China and Russia, I'd likely be imprisoned upon entry for the same reason. But it's easy to avoid these two countries - it's harder to evade the US as most flights towards Central and Southern America connect via the US, and you need a visa even for transit unlike in European airports.

flandish 3y ago
Wonder what would happen if you simply say “i have no profiles” and when presented with one with your image simply say “bot, not me.” Probably denied entry just the same.
- mschuster91 3y ago
  Or, worse, they let you in, someone does a random check against NSA or whatever databases, finds out you lied and now you get deported and a permanent ban on reentry.
  - flandish 3y ago
    Yeah, I mean proving I lied is the hard part. If I want to tell Uncle Sam or a prospective employer I have no social media then that’s the whole point. :/ Your example is what will surely happen though at the most “opportune” time, too.
    - mschuster91 3y ago
      > If I want to tell Uncle Sam or a prospective employer I have no social media then that’s the whole point. :/ Not in a day where everyone's data is being sold around for pennies [1] for the private sector, and the NSA is monitoring the entire Internet anyway and I'd wager a significant amount of money that they have direct feeds to major ISPs allowing them to cross-reference IP addresses and other forms of identifiers to real persons. [1] https://www.washington.edu/news/2017/10/18/for-1000-anyone-can-purchase-online-ads-to-track-your-location-and-app-use/ https://www.washington.edu/news/2017/10/18/for-1000-anyone-c...
      - flandish 3y ago
        All that does is track device usage not who is using it. Like red light cams mailing tickets to owners not drivers.
- dekhn 3y ago
  Or had a burner profile with only pre-approved messages.
slowmovintarget 3y ago
I don't know if you heard that about the US CBP policy on a news story or something, but there are two forms you fill out for entry as a non-resident / non-immigrant, an I-192 [1] and upon entry, you get an I-94 record created [2]. Neither of these has anything on it about social media accounts, at all. Perhaps this is simply not a current understanding? [1]: https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/forms/i-192.pdf https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/forms/i-1... [2]: https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/CBP%20Form%20I-94%20English%20SAMPLE_Watermark.pdf https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/CBP%20Form...
- mschuster91 3y ago
  I'm talking about ESTA, where CBP still wants you to name your social media profiles [1]. And if you use ESTA you automatically agree to waive your right to a review and appeal [2]. And the way I read it, for a more expensive tourist visa B-2 without ESTA I need a Form DS-160 [3] where it is mandatory as well ([4 page 19]), and to put the icing on the cake I can still be rejected by CBP. Oh, and in either case CBP can demand to ransack your phone and keep all data it contains [5]. There was some court decision recently [6] but I'm not sure just how binding this decision is in practice - and even if it were a "voluntary" search on paper, the CBP agent can still reject you for whatever reason with no right to appeal. At least one source claims that this is even the case for US citizens [7]! Absolutely bloody ridiculous. [1] https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/faq?lang=en&focusedTopic=About%20ESTA%20and%20The%20Visa%20Waiver%20Program&answerToDisplay=Who%20is%20eligible%20to%20submit%20an%20application%3F https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/faq?lang=en&focusedTopic=About%20ES... [2] https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/faq?lang=en&focusedTopic=About%20ESTA%20and%20The%20Visa%20Waiver%20Program&answerToDisplay=Who%20is%20eligible%20to%20submit%20an%20application%3F https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/faq?lang=en&focusedTopic=About%20ES... [3] https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/tourism-visit/visitor.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/tourism-... [4] https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/PDF-other/DS-160-Example_11-19-2020.pdf https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/PDF-other/DS-160-... [5] https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/09/18/phone-data-privacy-customs/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/09/18/phone-d... [6] https://www.eff.org/de/deeplinks/2023/05/federal-judge-makes-history-holding-border-searches-cell-phones-require-warrant https://www.eff.org/de/deeplinks/2023/05/federal-judge-makes... [7] https://informationsecurity.princeton.edu/sites/g/files/toruqf1121/files/searches_of_electronic_devices_at_the_border_-_faqs_-_march_2017_0.pdf https://informationsecurity.princeton.edu/sites/g/files/toru...