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Idaho has a small fraction of the population and diversity of those other places. Their challenges are significantly easier. Having been raised Republican and e

Idaho has a small fraction of the population and diversity of those other places. Their challenges are significantly easier. Having been raised Republican and evangelical, I'd agree with the article. Those groups push kids under the bus and think they're doing the kids a favor. European countries have many problems; IME placing profit, religion, and extreme forms of individualism above child well-being aren't on the list.

rayiner 3y ago
> Idaho has a small fraction of the population and diversity of those other places. That's a weird statement. By your logic, diversity makes people's lives worse, and folks in Idaho are justified in wanting no part in it. > Having been raised Republican and evangelical, I'd agree with the article. Those groups push kids under the bus and think they're doing the kids a favor. But, on objective metrics, those dumbfucks in Idaho are doing a better job teaching their kids to read than those in California--and for a lot less money. It's not just reading scores. Conservatives have greater well-being on various objective measures: https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2023/03/how-to-understand-the-well-being-gap-between-liberals-and-conservatives/ https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2023/03/how-to-understand.... That includes their kids: https://www.foxnews.com/media/conservative-teenagers-generally-happier-liberal-peers-study-finds https://www.foxnews.com/media/conservative-teenagers-general.... Utah has the kind of flat, egalitarian society liberals say they want to create: https://www.deseret.com/utah/2023/12/28/24017943/best-state-in-country-for-upward-mobility-utah#:~:text=“Utah%20ranks%20first%20overall%20in,%2C%20and%20charity%20(sixth) https://www.deseret.com/utah/2023/12/28/24017943/best-state-.... ("A 2014 article in The Atlantic pointed toward two strengths that Salt Lake City has that make it a positive environment for upward mobility: 'A strong middle class and a less extreme gap between the rich and the poor.' ... Based on data from 2020 to 2022, the Gini Index from the U.S. Census Bureau ranks Utah as having one of the lowest economic inequality scores across the country."). > European countries have many problems; IME placing profit, religion, and extreme forms of individualism above child well-being aren't on the list. In America, religion is pretty much the only check on "extreme forms of individualism." Silicon Valley and Wall Street are the places where, more than anywhere else in America, people worship money rather than God. Are those models to follow?
- xrd 3y ago
  How much does cost of living factor into ability to deliver results for schools? The further you go into the heartland, the cheaper the land gets. I think that plays a part.
  - skissane 3y ago
    Cost of living declines, but the tax base also shrinks – fewer large corporations and high-income earners, plus cheaper real estate reduces property tax revenues. Whatever advantages the lower cost of living gives, the reduced tax base may take away.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Salt Lake City is pretty liberal, so it isn't weird that it has egalitarian society liberals say they want to create.
- klooney 3y ago
  The problem is "diversity" is too mealy mouthed for the specific finger they're trying to point- kids from Guatemala (or insert any other country with a high number of recent emigres) who don't speak or read English don't test well on exams with English language instructions for tautological reasons. That's only part of the problem in blue states though, and does not explain the full discrepancy.
skissane 3y ago
> Idaho has a small fraction of the population and diversity of those other places. Their challenges are significantly easier. One of the states rayiner cited Idaho as outperforming is Delaware. Idaho does not have a "small fraction" of the population of Delaware, it has almost twice Delware's population It is also unclear why, above a certain minimum, population in itself should make any significant difference to a jurisdiction's ability to provide a quality education. As population scales, other relevant factors (such as student and teacher numbers and size of budgets) should scale proportionately – and if they don't, then we've identified a relevant explanatory factor other than population. Furthermore, Idaho is a lot more diverse than you seem to think it is. Only 80% of the state's population is non-Hispanic white; in K-12 public school enrolments, it is only 73%. [0] Deep red Idaho's schools outperform those of light blue Maine, despite the fact that Idaho has close to 40% more people, and significantly greater ethnic diversity (Maine's population is 92% non-Hispanic white) [0] https://idahoschools.org/state/ID https://idahoschools.org/state/ID
- com2kid 3y ago
  > As population scales, other relevant factors (such as student and teacher numbers and size of budgets) should scale proportionately – and if they don't, then we've identified a relevant explanatory factor other than population. American cities and suburbs are so low density that they end up losing money because infrastructure is spread out over such a large area that taxes collected per square mile aren't enough to keep things working. People get pissed if the electric poles fall down, or when water stops flowing, so school budgets get cut instead. Accordingly, older cities lose more money (more old stuff to maintain) and cities that grow larger (add more low density single family homes) lose more money faster. 40% of Idaho's population lives in a single mid-size city that apparently isn't burning through cash. If Boise 3x'd in population, it'd probably also start losing money like other larger American cities.
  - xyzzyz 3y ago
    > American cities and suburbs are so low density that they end up losing money because infrastructure is spread out over such a large area that taxes collected per square mile aren't enough to keep things working. This is very much false. I don’t know why this misinformation is so widespread, but even a glance look at the municipal budgets is enough to see the facts contradict it. The typical suburb only spends around 10% of its budget on infrastructure, and this spend is dwarfed by educational spending by a lot.

rayiner 3y ago

> Idaho has a small fraction of the population and diversity of those other places. That's a weird statement. By your logic, diversity makes people's lives worse, and folks in Idaho are justified in wanting no part in it. > Having been raised Republican and evangelical, I'd agree with the article. Those groups push kids under the bus and think they're doing the kids a favor. But, on objective metrics, those dumbfucks in Idaho are doing a better job teaching their kids to read than those in California--and for a lot less money. It's not just reading scores. Conservatives have greater well-being on various objective measures: https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2023/03/how-to-understand-the-well-being-gap-between-liberals-and-conservatives/ https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2023/03/how-to-understand.... That includes their kids: https://www.foxnews.com/media/conservative-teenagers-generally-happier-liberal-peers-study-finds https://www.foxnews.com/media/conservative-teenagers-general.... Utah has the kind of flat, egalitarian society liberals say they want to create: https://www.deseret.com/utah/2023/12/28/24017943/best-state-in-country-for-upward-mobility-utah#:~:text=“Utah%20ranks%20first%20overall%20in,%2C%20and%20charity%20(sixth) https://www.deseret.com/utah/2023/12/28/24017943/best-state-.... ("A 2014 article in The Atlantic pointed toward two strengths that Salt Lake City has that make it a positive environment for upward mobility: 'A strong middle class and a less extreme gap between the rich and the poor.' ... Based on data from 2020 to 2022, the Gini Index from the U.S. Census Bureau ranks Utah as having one of the lowest economic inequality scores across the country."). > European countries have many problems; IME placing profit, religion, and extreme forms of individualism above child well-being aren't on the list. In America, religion is pretty much the only check on "extreme forms of individualism." Silicon Valley and Wall Street are the places where, more than anywhere else in America, people worship money rather than God. Are those models to follow?

xrd 3y ago
How much does cost of living factor into ability to deliver results for schools? The further you go into the heartland, the cheaper the land gets. I think that plays a part.
- skissane 3y ago
  Cost of living declines, but the tax base also shrinks – fewer large corporations and high-income earners, plus cheaper real estate reduces property tax revenues. Whatever advantages the lower cost of living gives, the reduced tax base may take away.
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
Salt Lake City is pretty liberal, so it isn't weird that it has egalitarian society liberals say they want to create.
klooney 3y ago
The problem is "diversity" is too mealy mouthed for the specific finger they're trying to point- kids from Guatemala (or insert any other country with a high number of recent emigres) who don't speak or read English don't test well on exams with English language instructions for tautological reasons. That's only part of the problem in blue states though, and does not explain the full discrepancy.

skissane 3y ago

> Idaho has a small fraction of the population and diversity of those other places. Their challenges are significantly easier. One of the states rayiner cited Idaho as outperforming is Delaware. Idaho does not have a "small fraction" of the population of Delaware, it has almost twice Delware's population It is also unclear why, above a certain minimum, population in itself should make any significant difference to a jurisdiction's ability to provide a quality education. As population scales, other relevant factors (such as student and teacher numbers and size of budgets) should scale proportionately – and if they don't, then we've identified a relevant explanatory factor other than population. Furthermore, Idaho is a lot more diverse than you seem to think it is. Only 80% of the state's population is non-Hispanic white; in K-12 public school enrolments, it is only 73%. [0] Deep red Idaho's schools outperform those of light blue Maine, despite the fact that Idaho has close to 40% more people, and significantly greater ethnic diversity (Maine's population is 92% non-Hispanic white) [0] https://idahoschools.org/state/ID https://idahoschools.org/state/ID

com2kid 3y ago
> As population scales, other relevant factors (such as student and teacher numbers and size of budgets) should scale proportionately – and if they don't, then we've identified a relevant explanatory factor other than population. American cities and suburbs are so low density that they end up losing money because infrastructure is spread out over such a large area that taxes collected per square mile aren't enough to keep things working. People get pissed if the electric poles fall down, or when water stops flowing, so school budgets get cut instead. Accordingly, older cities lose more money (more old stuff to maintain) and cities that grow larger (add more low density single family homes) lose more money faster. 40% of Idaho's population lives in a single mid-size city that apparently isn't burning through cash. If Boise 3x'd in population, it'd probably also start losing money like other larger American cities.
- xyzzyz 3y ago
  > American cities and suburbs are so low density that they end up losing money because infrastructure is spread out over such a large area that taxes collected per square mile aren't enough to keep things working. This is very much false. I don’t know why this misinformation is so widespread, but even a glance look at the municipal budgets is enough to see the facts contradict it. The typical suburb only spends around 10% of its budget on infrastructure, and this spend is dwarfed by educational spending by a lot.