5 ms·

You guys had some really nice reactors too. Not just the ones recently shut down, but gas-cooled ones as well (THTR-300), and the infamous sodium-cooled one SNR

You guys had some really nice reactors too. Not just the ones recently shut down, but gas-cooled ones as well (THTR-300), and the infamous sodium-cooled one SNR-300, which got cancelled by protests after it was 100% completed and fueled but before it ever turned on. It's now an amusement park :( :(

ikekkdcjkfke 3y ago
Would be really interesting to see where the anti-nuclear sentiment in germany formented from
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- nukeman 3y ago
  1. Being on the front lines of the Cold War, in the event of a hot war, most nuclear weapons would be used in West Germany. (Yes, weapons aren’t power plants, but they can be hard to separate in popular discourse.) 2. Plans to build a nuclear power plant at Wyhl were opposed by locals, who occupied the site, and were forcefully removed by police. This was broadcast on television and helped galvanize the anti-nuclear movement. 3. The Chernobyl accident led to fallout being deposited on German soil, which furthered opposition, and in my view, was the killing blow.
  - jansan 3y ago
    > The Chernobyl accident led to fallout being deposited on German soil, A That was long after the anti nuclear movement had gained full steam, not a reason for it. People in Poland or Bulgaria are not nearly that extreme in their thinking, even though they got a much bigger dose of the Charnobyl fallout.
    - nukeman 3y ago
      But the severity of Chernobyl definitely fomented anti-nuclear sentiment much further than it had been. It “showed” that a major radiological release could happen in a civilian power plant (nonwithstanding that such designs weren’t used in Germany). Ultimately the formation of the sentiment was a process, of which Chernobyl is a core part.
- al_hag 3y ago
  Disasters lead to a rethink […] the meltdown in Harrisburg in 1979, the Super-Gau in Chernobyl in 1986. The answer of the then Union-led federal government: Helmut Kohl creates a Ministry for the Environment, Nature Conservation and Nuclear Safety. Also a demonstrative sign to the Greens, who first entered the Bundestag in 1983, with the clear demand for an immediate construction and operation stop to all nuclear power plants. https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/atomausstieg-debatte-107.html https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/atomausstieg-d...
  - acidburnNSA 3y ago
    Yeah... somehow it's hard for humans to compare normal operating combustion sources like fossil and biofuel killing ~8 million people/yr from air pollution while also causing climate change against a few bad reactor accidents.
- maxnoe 3y ago
  Chernobyl.
  - acidburnNSA 3y ago
    This is probably mostly right. I consider it worth noting that each single coal plant operating normally kills more people than Chernobyl, even in the high-end estimates, roughly every 5 years. I think the psychology of radiation is somehow a lot scarier than the psychology of particulate air pollution, for some reason.
- jansan 3y ago
  That's what I am often wondering about. A large part of Germans have developed a completly exaggerated fear of nuclear energy, acting almost like cult or if they are in a mass delusion. One example: When I say to some of my friends that I would be perfectly fine living near an underground long term storage facility for nuclear waste, they do not believe me or think I am a moron. They really think that facility could either blow up or the radiation will kill you in your sleep. And those are doctors, judges and other people with higher education. One influential German politician even claimed, that the Fukushima incident killed 16000 people, simply attributing most of the deaths from the tsunami to the Fukushima powerplant. And those people are now in power of this country. I have no idea if this development was controlled by interest groups or they spiralled into that mindset themselves, which would not even surprise me.
  - MaKey 3y ago
    You would be fine living near Asse [1]? [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asse_II_mine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asse_II_mine
    - jansan 3y ago
      Yes. Actually, my son is currently applying for a job in that region. Havin said that, Asse is not really a great location for long term storage and it is the correct decision to shut it down.
- camgunz 3y ago
  Their environmental movement--and many others around the world--was against nuclear power. It's easy to forget now but fairly or unfairly nuclear came to be seen as a dirty energy source after stuff like Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, and Fukushima. Even now a lot of hardcore environmentalists are completely against any nuclear builds, favoring essentially only wind and solar (geothermal/hydro here and there but meh).
- hunglee2 3y ago
  there are many theories but I think being front-line for so long in any East-West confrontation is the most important factor - it was the reason Green / Anti-Nuclear / Pacific sentiment was much stronger in Germany than anywhere else in Europe. It's fashionable to dunk on Merkel these days but when she went against nuclear post-Fukushima it was with widespread support from the society.

ikekkdcjkfke 3y ago

Would be really interesting to see where the anti-nuclear sentiment in germany formented from

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
nukeman 3y ago
1. Being on the front lines of the Cold War, in the event of a hot war, most nuclear weapons would be used in West Germany. (Yes, weapons aren’t power plants, but they can be hard to separate in popular discourse.) 2. Plans to build a nuclear power plant at Wyhl were opposed by locals, who occupied the site, and were forcefully removed by police. This was broadcast on television and helped galvanize the anti-nuclear movement. 3. The Chernobyl accident led to fallout being deposited on German soil, which furthered opposition, and in my view, was the killing blow.
- jansan 3y ago
  > The Chernobyl accident led to fallout being deposited on German soil, A That was long after the anti nuclear movement had gained full steam, not a reason for it. People in Poland or Bulgaria are not nearly that extreme in their thinking, even though they got a much bigger dose of the Charnobyl fallout.
  - nukeman 3y ago
    But the severity of Chernobyl definitely fomented anti-nuclear sentiment much further than it had been. It “showed” that a major radiological release could happen in a civilian power plant (nonwithstanding that such designs weren’t used in Germany). Ultimately the formation of the sentiment was a process, of which Chernobyl is a core part.
al_hag 3y ago
Disasters lead to a rethink […] the meltdown in Harrisburg in 1979, the Super-Gau in Chernobyl in 1986. The answer of the then Union-led federal government: Helmut Kohl creates a Ministry for the Environment, Nature Conservation and Nuclear Safety. Also a demonstrative sign to the Greens, who first entered the Bundestag in 1983, with the clear demand for an immediate construction and operation stop to all nuclear power plants. https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/atomausstieg-debatte-107.html https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/atomausstieg-d...
- acidburnNSA 3y ago
  Yeah... somehow it's hard for humans to compare normal operating combustion sources like fossil and biofuel killing ~8 million people/yr from air pollution while also causing climate change against a few bad reactor accidents.
maxnoe 3y ago
Chernobyl.
- acidburnNSA 3y ago
  This is probably mostly right. I consider it worth noting that each single coal plant operating normally kills more people than Chernobyl, even in the high-end estimates, roughly every 5 years. I think the psychology of radiation is somehow a lot scarier than the psychology of particulate air pollution, for some reason.
jansan 3y ago
That's what I am often wondering about. A large part of Germans have developed a completly exaggerated fear of nuclear energy, acting almost like cult or if they are in a mass delusion. One example: When I say to some of my friends that I would be perfectly fine living near an underground long term storage facility for nuclear waste, they do not believe me or think I am a moron. They really think that facility could either blow up or the radiation will kill you in your sleep. And those are doctors, judges and other people with higher education. One influential German politician even claimed, that the Fukushima incident killed 16000 people, simply attributing most of the deaths from the tsunami to the Fukushima powerplant. And those people are now in power of this country. I have no idea if this development was controlled by interest groups or they spiralled into that mindset themselves, which would not even surprise me.
- MaKey 3y ago
  You would be fine living near Asse [1]? [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asse_II_mine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asse_II_mine
  - jansan 3y ago
    Yes. Actually, my son is currently applying for a job in that region. Havin said that, Asse is not really a great location for long term storage and it is the correct decision to shut it down.
camgunz 3y ago
Their environmental movement--and many others around the world--was against nuclear power. It's easy to forget now but fairly or unfairly nuclear came to be seen as a dirty energy source after stuff like Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, and Fukushima. Even now a lot of hardcore environmentalists are completely against any nuclear builds, favoring essentially only wind and solar (geothermal/hydro here and there but meh).
hunglee2 3y ago
there are many theories but I think being front-line for so long in any East-West confrontation is the most important factor - it was the reason Green / Anti-Nuclear / Pacific sentiment was much stronger in Germany than anywhere else in Europe. It's fashionable to dunk on Merkel these days but when she went against nuclear post-Fukushima it was with widespread support from the society.