4 ms·

Perhaps I lack imagination, but for so many of these AR/VR glasses I just don't understand who the target market is besides (a) gamers and (b) niche commercial

Perhaps I lack imagination, but for so many of these AR/VR glasses I just don't understand who the target market is besides (a) gamers and (b) niche commercial applications. To be clear, I think those 2 markets are big enough to support building some great products (I've played some games on the Quest and loved them), but all of these companies (especially Meta) seem to have the belief that most of us will be wearing these for a large portion of the day, and I just don't buy it. If anything, I want less distraction and notifications from my devices.

IggleSniggle 3y ago
I agree on the last part. I've been considering declutterring my desk by replacing my multi monitor setup with a headset, though. I like that it would be more portable, more dynamic, and take up less space than my current setup.
oldpersonintx 3y ago
[dead]
guhidalg 3y ago
I believe Apple’s goal is to exploit network effects of having multiple users with headsets in a semi-persistent environment. As in, a simultaneously physical and virtual conference room where your whole team can meet and interact with one or more applications at the same time. Instead of sitting in a room having a PowerPoint read to you, you can be at home in your pajamas and attend the meeting with all of the non-verbal cues you would get as if you were in the meeting room. Your Teams/Slack chat would get projected onto the wall so the presenter doesn’t miss a question. Idk probably it’ll just be games though…
prng2021 3y ago
You shouldn’t need to have an empty space to support a 65 inch or larger tv to feel immersed when you’re watching my a show/movie. Similarly, you shouldn’t need to buy a big desk to support 3 big monitors just so you can multitask better. If you’re looking to replace furniture in your house and you can overlay a new sofa over your current one using AR glasses to compare the size and how the color fits with the rest of your things, wouldn’t that be great? Imagine you’re assembling a toy or furniture and AR glasses can guide you through which piece to connect where. There are so so many new possibilities as AR/VR matures.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  Thanks for giving examples. When I look at them one by one, though: 1. Regarding the TV, I would much prefer having a big screen TV, around which I could interact with a group of people, than having us all wear glasses in the same room to watch a movie. 2. Regarding the multi-monitor use case, I know some people have said they already use VR goggles for that, and maybe the tech will eventually get there but I'd never want to do that for long periods - the strain on my eyes and head would be horrible. 3. Regarding AR for new furniture, there are already cellphone camera apps that do this (Amazon already does this with some furniture products). I think doing this with AR goggles instead of a phone camera would be worse in nearly every way. 4. Similarly, there are already AR guides that do this with your phone camera. If anything, your points 3 and 4 really highlight to me why I think AR goggles are generally a bad idea. I agree that AR is useful in those small examples, but for those relatively short "let me just see how this would look against this physical thing" use cases, being able to quickly pull out my phone (which I already have) and put it back again when I'm done completely obliterates the need for a second dedicated piece of hardware. The only places goggles/glasses really make sense is where people will be wearing them for extended periods, and my argument is that in most cases people will not want to wear them for long periods.
  - prng2021 3y ago
    My responses: 1. Imagine most of your field of view is filled with the view of a basketball game from courtside seats, a front row of a concert or boxing match, or even a movie. Imagine a movie where a train is coming from the side and you can just turn your head to follow it coming in. People value immersive experiences. That’s why we pay for IMAX tickets and surround sound Atmos speakers. I’d also say the vast majority of time you’re not watching tv with a group of people. In situations where you are, I agree VR makes less sense. 2. Fair point if the tech doesn’t improve. 3 and 4. The phone is a 3x5 rectangle that’s increasing in screen size every year. I don’t see how someone wouldn’t prefer AR that lets people move around in the real world to view something from every angle without holding a small viewfinder in front of them. Navigation to a building or within it would be much better with good AR. If I’m meeting other parents at my kids school for some event, I can’t keep track of all their names and their kids names. Overlay that information above their head using AR (assuming they share it). There are tons of other use cases I can think of. I’d say people will wear AR/VR glasses for long periods as long as they provide significant value and are comfortable. I already wear prescription glasses. If you told me the numerous AR use cases I have in mind could be included in them 10 years from now, I’d be all in.
sho_hn 3y ago
I think it's worse. I can't shake the feeling that these AR/VR devices would be actively harmful if they actually became popular. So many of us already live in a strange artificial bubble of routine city life, digital concerns and work in MS Teams, disconnected from the wider physical world and the lives of but a few handpicked other people. Strapping screens to our faces and increasingly ignoring what's actually out there can only make this malady worse. To me the "haha, it will never catch on and remain a niche form factor" thinking is the optimistic take. If they stay a rarely-used, sophisticated toy I think that's just fine. If they actually become the Next Big Thing, we'd all lose. The sad part is that I think they do have a lot to offer to e.g. the immobile, and I understand looking forward to the technology becoming better if you are in that demo.
- satvikpendem 3y ago
  I sometimes watch this video and shudder to think of what our life might be like if this becomes the day-to-day reality: https://vimeo.com/166807261 https://vimeo.com/166807261
- bumpkijss 3y ago
  This reads like historical backlash against DnD, comic books, rock music, explicit lyrics, Somy Walkmans turning us into zombies, and the internet itself. Very active social bubbles, yet the high minds of just a few decades ago fretted society would collapse and they’d be helpless since they’re so reliant on externalization of their real needs. Can’t help but conclude this is less about fear of the state of the aggregate and more like personal existential dread if everyone is lost in goggles they won’t want to wipe your but in your care home years.
  - sho_hn 3y ago
    Nah, it's more the worries of a technologist who has contributed to what we have today for the past 20+ years, and worries what the balance sheet on that really is given how well things are going.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

IggleSniggle 3y ago

I agree on the last part. I've been considering declutterring my desk by replacing my multi monitor setup with a headset, though. I like that it would be more portable, more dynamic, and take up less space than my current setup.

oldpersonintx 3y ago

[dead]

guhidalg 3y ago

I believe Apple’s goal is to exploit network effects of having multiple users with headsets in a semi-persistent environment. As in, a simultaneously physical and virtual conference room where your whole team can meet and interact with one or more applications at the same time. Instead of sitting in a room having a PowerPoint read to you, you can be at home in your pajamas and attend the meeting with all of the non-verbal cues you would get as if you were in the meeting room. Your Teams/Slack chat would get projected onto the wall so the presenter doesn’t miss a question. Idk probably it’ll just be games though…

prng2021 3y ago

You shouldn’t need to have an empty space to support a 65 inch or larger tv to feel immersed when you’re watching my a show/movie. Similarly, you shouldn’t need to buy a big desk to support 3 big monitors just so you can multitask better. If you’re looking to replace furniture in your house and you can overlay a new sofa over your current one using AR glasses to compare the size and how the color fits with the rest of your things, wouldn’t that be great? Imagine you’re assembling a toy or furniture and AR glasses can guide you through which piece to connect where. There are so so many new possibilities as AR/VR matures.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
Thanks for giving examples. When I look at them one by one, though: 1. Regarding the TV, I would much prefer having a big screen TV, around which I could interact with a group of people, than having us all wear glasses in the same room to watch a movie. 2. Regarding the multi-monitor use case, I know some people have said they already use VR goggles for that, and maybe the tech will eventually get there but I'd never want to do that for long periods - the strain on my eyes and head would be horrible. 3. Regarding AR for new furniture, there are already cellphone camera apps that do this (Amazon already does this with some furniture products). I think doing this with AR goggles instead of a phone camera would be worse in nearly every way. 4. Similarly, there are already AR guides that do this with your phone camera. If anything, your points 3 and 4 really highlight to me why I think AR goggles are generally a bad idea. I agree that AR is useful in those small examples, but for those relatively short "let me just see how this would look against this physical thing" use cases, being able to quickly pull out my phone (which I already have) and put it back again when I'm done completely obliterates the need for a second dedicated piece of hardware. The only places goggles/glasses really make sense is where people will be wearing them for extended periods, and my argument is that in most cases people will not want to wear them for long periods.
- prng2021 3y ago
  My responses: 1. Imagine most of your field of view is filled with the view of a basketball game from courtside seats, a front row of a concert or boxing match, or even a movie. Imagine a movie where a train is coming from the side and you can just turn your head to follow it coming in. People value immersive experiences. That’s why we pay for IMAX tickets and surround sound Atmos speakers. I’d also say the vast majority of time you’re not watching tv with a group of people. In situations where you are, I agree VR makes less sense. 2. Fair point if the tech doesn’t improve. 3 and 4. The phone is a 3x5 rectangle that’s increasing in screen size every year. I don’t see how someone wouldn’t prefer AR that lets people move around in the real world to view something from every angle without holding a small viewfinder in front of them. Navigation to a building or within it would be much better with good AR. If I’m meeting other parents at my kids school for some event, I can’t keep track of all their names and their kids names. Overlay that information above their head using AR (assuming they share it). There are tons of other use cases I can think of. I’d say people will wear AR/VR glasses for long periods as long as they provide significant value and are comfortable. I already wear prescription glasses. If you told me the numerous AR use cases I have in mind could be included in them 10 years from now, I’d be all in.

sho_hn 3y ago

I think it's worse. I can't shake the feeling that these AR/VR devices would be actively harmful if they actually became popular. So many of us already live in a strange artificial bubble of routine city life, digital concerns and work in MS Teams, disconnected from the wider physical world and the lives of but a few handpicked other people. Strapping screens to our faces and increasingly ignoring what's actually out there can only make this malady worse. To me the "haha, it will never catch on and remain a niche form factor" thinking is the optimistic take. If they stay a rarely-used, sophisticated toy I think that's just fine. If they actually become the Next Big Thing, we'd all lose. The sad part is that I think they do have a lot to offer to e.g. the immobile, and I understand looking forward to the technology becoming better if you are in that demo.

satvikpendem 3y ago
I sometimes watch this video and shudder to think of what our life might be like if this becomes the day-to-day reality: https://vimeo.com/166807261 https://vimeo.com/166807261
bumpkijss 3y ago
This reads like historical backlash against DnD, comic books, rock music, explicit lyrics, Somy Walkmans turning us into zombies, and the internet itself. Very active social bubbles, yet the high minds of just a few decades ago fretted society would collapse and they’d be helpless since they’re so reliant on externalization of their real needs. Can’t help but conclude this is less about fear of the state of the aggregate and more like personal existential dread if everyone is lost in goggles they won’t want to wipe your but in your care home years.
- sho_hn 3y ago
  Nah, it's more the worries of a technologist who has contributed to what we have today for the past 20+ years, and worries what the balance sheet on that really is given how well things are going.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]