8 ms·

There’s certainly a place for escapism. There’s also a place for art with something to say though.

flumpcakes 3y ago
Nearly everything published in the last few years has been political, a growing trend since the mid-2000s. I'm finding myself watching shows from the 90s for escapism.
- harimau777 3y ago
  For things set in modern day America, I think it would be almost impossible to not be political. If you include minorities (especially LGBTQ minorities) then you can't write them realistically without politics coming into the picture. If you don't include minorities, then that is itself a political statement. This is of course less the case for more fantastic settings.
  - presstooober 3y ago
    It’s absolutely possible to have LGBTQ (main) character and plot lines while totally avoiding all political/ideological themes. Schitt's Creek (TV Series 2015‑2020) is a fantastic example.
    - looperhacks 3y ago
      To some (many?) people, even including LGBTQ characters is an idiological topic in itself.
    - wishinghand 3y ago
      That was a political statement by imagining a world where LGBT is a non-issue. It was like a TV show version of John Lennon’s “Imagine”.
    - TylerE 3y ago
      Hard when one party is banning books with LGBT themes.
- bitwize 3y ago
  There's really no such thing as apolitical media. "Apolitical", escapist entertainment assumes a default political context (in the USA, white-normative and cisheteronormative). Not having the politics of the day affect you on a deep personal level is a luxury of privilege. For the marginalized, politics reaches out and touches them whether they want it or not.
  - mandmandam 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - flumpcakes 3y ago
      > The US is funding an openly genocidal regime that is killing a child every ten minutes, saying there's "no red line". That's your political opinion. > Maybe if the wilfully politically ignorant could figure out how to write good character driven stories, those people would have options. But for some reason, people with good souls and hearts write the best stories... And people without them write inane drivel that fails to connect on any deep level, ever. That's your political opinion. I don't see why it's not an obvious truth that sometimes people prefer not to have to think about politics or political ideology. And to suggest art or entertainment devoid of political ideology is "drivel" or for people without "good souls and hearts" is baffling.
      - treyd 3y ago
        > That's your political opinion [that the US is funding a regime] https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/11/1143772 https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/11/1143772 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/palestinian-children-death-trauma-israel-bombing-hamas-rcna122113 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/palestinian-children-deat... It seems like a pretty apolitical and objective statement to me. Perhaps not as fast as every 10 minutes but probably not far off.
        flumpcakes 3y ago
        Where in those articles is the conclusive fact that Israel is an "openly genocidal regime". Was America openly genocidal for the civilian deaths in WW2? I would say Russia is openly genocidal, but ask a Russian and they say they are saving their Ukrainian cousins and it's Kyiv that is openly genocidal to Russians. If dead children makes a genocide then nearly every war ever fought was genocide. Israel will say they have teams of lawyers reviewing every strike and if the civilian to combatant or military objective ratio is within the bounds of international law then they will strike. The geneva convention is pretty clear on when civilian areas stop becoming protected.
- Arkhaine_kupo 3y ago
  The 90s with its apolitical cinema like Saving private Ryan or Forrest gump that certainly are not pro american propaganda or other great movies like the Matrix that do not denounce late stage capitalism as soul crushing and has no themes that could be interpreted about taking red pills and feeling more like yourself. The 90s had a different context sure, capitalism was peaking, we didn't have the crushing reality of the post 2008 world, or the crazy chest bumping Murica militarism of the post 9/11 era. But the 2000s scare, the internet fear, the office jobs being boring/grey and soulless. The slight fear of science and progress (see Jurassic park, gattaca, fifth element), the work culture being inhumane and dehumanising (matrix, office space, clerks, american beauty), the same happened in music with grunge being one of the main genres of the decades. All of this art was made in the backdrop of probably the most optimistic period of time, Disney had a renaissance, america absolute cleared the floor in the first gulf war, the stock market had an impossible never ending rise, pop music was happier than ever and fashion was in the most sexy, thin, in your face hotness ever. If you only want to enjoy the 90s happiness without seeing the fact tons of counter art was being made and that our current cyniscim isn't only a product of the post 2008 economic stagnation but also comes from the seeds that were planted at the height of the cultural hedonism of the 90s then you are just straight ignoring some of the biggest hits of that decade.
  - flumpcakes 3y ago
    Saving Private Ryan and the Matrix are some of my favourite films. I enjoy media that has a political message or meaning. Get Out was my favourite horror film of that year, and that very clearly exists in a world with a strong political undercurrent. I'm saying right now, I want more media that is not drenched in political ideology, left wing or right wing. I (like the majority of people) live in a shit world with a shit job and a shit life. But it could easily be worse. I would rather not be reminded how shit everything is even when I just want to be distracted for a short while. > 90s happiness I want escapism, it doesn't have to be happy.
    - 7thaccount 3y ago
      This is also why a lot of recent films have absolutely tanked in viewership lately. Everything just seems like preaching and it can be difficult to watch even if you agree with the message. I'm getting near middle aged and have started watching more of the 90s scifi (with some good modern shows as well) when I just want to escape for a bit. I just started rewatching Farscape again. What a bizarre/wild ride.
- ryanklee 3y ago
  > Nearly everything published What a bald exaggeration
- Cthulhu_ 3y ago
  Can you explain? X-Men (starting in 1963, popular cartoon adaptation in the 90's) had a clear and unsubtle anti-racist, anti-apartheid message. Batman had an underlying message of classism and even homosexuality according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman#Interpretations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman#Interpretations. I don't get commenters going "X has gone woke" when that's nothing new. Sure, a lot of modern-day media is overt and often unsubtle in its more liberal viewpoints to the point where it seems to detract from the story itself, but that's not a bad thing per sé if it means marginalized communities feel more represented and the non-marginalized communities get a counter from the preceding era's straight/white/male dominance.
  - flumpcakes 3y ago
    Perhaps it's the art of subtly that has been lost. You could argue than any media is political, which is trite. Sometimes entertainment is just entertainment.
- manicennui 3y ago
  Most works that have stood the test of time are political. Is this the part where you tell us that Rage Against The Machine only became political recently?
badpun 3y ago
There are oceans of non-political novels which nevertheless have something to say.
- Arainach 3y ago
  .....such as?
  - DiggyJohnson 3y ago
    It depends on whether you see everything as political or not. Let’s choose a children’s story. What about Harry Potter? “Of course it's happening inside your head, Harry, but why should that mean it's not real?”
    - Arainach 3y ago
      The Harry Potter where the villains talk about racial purity, kill people who mix magical and non-magical blood, take over the government and use it to oppress people? That non-political Harry Potter? (Yes, also the Harry Potter where one of the black characters is named Shacklebolt, the goblins are essentially a loosely tied pile of Jewish stereotypes, and plenty of other problems as well)
      - ThrowawayR2 3y ago
        You know you've gone off the deep end when you start thinking of Harry Potter as something that contains intentional political messaging instead of something that overuses convenient off-the-shelf tropes for villains and everything else but manages to tell an engaging tale in spite of it.
        wishinghand 3y ago
        I think that if you think those tropes are just tropes and not intentional political messaging, then there is no longer any point in discussion with your level of reading comprehension.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

Nearly everything published in the last few years has been political, a growing trend since the mid-2000s. I'm finding myself watching shows from the 90s for escapism.

harimau777 3y ago
For things set in modern day America, I think it would be almost impossible to not be political. If you include minorities (especially LGBTQ minorities) then you can't write them realistically without politics coming into the picture. If you don't include minorities, then that is itself a political statement. This is of course less the case for more fantastic settings.
- presstooober 3y ago
  It’s absolutely possible to have LGBTQ (main) character and plot lines while totally avoiding all political/ideological themes. Schitt's Creek (TV Series 2015‑2020) is a fantastic example.
  - looperhacks 3y ago
    To some (many?) people, even including LGBTQ characters is an idiological topic in itself.
  - wishinghand 3y ago
    That was a political statement by imagining a world where LGBT is a non-issue. It was like a TV show version of John Lennon’s “Imagine”.
  - TylerE 3y ago
    Hard when one party is banning books with LGBT themes.
bitwize 3y ago
There's really no such thing as apolitical media. "Apolitical", escapist entertainment assumes a default political context (in the USA, white-normative and cisheteronormative). Not having the politics of the day affect you on a deep personal level is a luxury of privilege. For the marginalized, politics reaches out and touches them whether they want it or not.
- mandmandam 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - flumpcakes 3y ago
    > The US is funding an openly genocidal regime that is killing a child every ten minutes, saying there's "no red line". That's your political opinion. > Maybe if the wilfully politically ignorant could figure out how to write good character driven stories, those people would have options. But for some reason, people with good souls and hearts write the best stories... And people without them write inane drivel that fails to connect on any deep level, ever. That's your political opinion. I don't see why it's not an obvious truth that sometimes people prefer not to have to think about politics or political ideology. And to suggest art or entertainment devoid of political ideology is "drivel" or for people without "good souls and hearts" is baffling.
    - treyd 3y ago
      > That's your political opinion [that the US is funding a regime] https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/11/1143772 https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/11/1143772 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/palestinian-children-death-trauma-israel-bombing-hamas-rcna122113 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/palestinian-children-deat... It seems like a pretty apolitical and objective statement to me. Perhaps not as fast as every 10 minutes but probably not far off.
      - flumpcakes 3y ago
        Where in those articles is the conclusive fact that Israel is an "openly genocidal regime". Was America openly genocidal for the civilian deaths in WW2? I would say Russia is openly genocidal, but ask a Russian and they say they are saving their Ukrainian cousins and it's Kyiv that is openly genocidal to Russians. If dead children makes a genocide then nearly every war ever fought was genocide. Israel will say they have teams of lawyers reviewing every strike and if the civilian to combatant or military objective ratio is within the bounds of international law then they will strike. The geneva convention is pretty clear on when civilian areas stop becoming protected.
Arkhaine_kupo 3y ago
The 90s with its apolitical cinema like Saving private Ryan or Forrest gump that certainly are not pro american propaganda or other great movies like the Matrix that do not denounce late stage capitalism as soul crushing and has no themes that could be interpreted about taking red pills and feeling more like yourself. The 90s had a different context sure, capitalism was peaking, we didn't have the crushing reality of the post 2008 world, or the crazy chest bumping Murica militarism of the post 9/11 era. But the 2000s scare, the internet fear, the office jobs being boring/grey and soulless. The slight fear of science and progress (see Jurassic park, gattaca, fifth element), the work culture being inhumane and dehumanising (matrix, office space, clerks, american beauty), the same happened in music with grunge being one of the main genres of the decades. All of this art was made in the backdrop of probably the most optimistic period of time, Disney had a renaissance, america absolute cleared the floor in the first gulf war, the stock market had an impossible never ending rise, pop music was happier than ever and fashion was in the most sexy, thin, in your face hotness ever. If you only want to enjoy the 90s happiness without seeing the fact tons of counter art was being made and that our current cyniscim isn't only a product of the post 2008 economic stagnation but also comes from the seeds that were planted at the height of the cultural hedonism of the 90s then you are just straight ignoring some of the biggest hits of that decade.
- flumpcakes 3y ago
  Saving Private Ryan and the Matrix are some of my favourite films. I enjoy media that has a political message or meaning. Get Out was my favourite horror film of that year, and that very clearly exists in a world with a strong political undercurrent. I'm saying right now, I want more media that is not drenched in political ideology, left wing or right wing. I (like the majority of people) live in a shit world with a shit job and a shit life. But it could easily be worse. I would rather not be reminded how shit everything is even when I just want to be distracted for a short while. > 90s happiness I want escapism, it doesn't have to be happy.
  - 7thaccount 3y ago
    This is also why a lot of recent films have absolutely tanked in viewership lately. Everything just seems like preaching and it can be difficult to watch even if you agree with the message. I'm getting near middle aged and have started watching more of the 90s scifi (with some good modern shows as well) when I just want to escape for a bit. I just started rewatching Farscape again. What a bizarre/wild ride.
ryanklee 3y ago
> Nearly everything published What a bald exaggeration
Cthulhu_ 3y ago
Can you explain? X-Men (starting in 1963, popular cartoon adaptation in the 90's) had a clear and unsubtle anti-racist, anti-apartheid message. Batman had an underlying message of classism and even homosexuality according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman#Interpretations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman#Interpretations. I don't get commenters going "X has gone woke" when that's nothing new. Sure, a lot of modern-day media is overt and often unsubtle in its more liberal viewpoints to the point where it seems to detract from the story itself, but that's not a bad thing per sé if it means marginalized communities feel more represented and the non-marginalized communities get a counter from the preceding era's straight/white/male dominance.
- flumpcakes 3y ago
  Perhaps it's the art of subtly that has been lost. You could argue than any media is political, which is trite. Sometimes entertainment is just entertainment.
manicennui 3y ago
Most works that have stood the test of time are political. Is this the part where you tell us that Rage Against The Machine only became political recently?

badpun 3y ago

There are oceans of non-political novels which nevertheless have something to say.

Arainach 3y ago
.....such as?
- DiggyJohnson 3y ago
  It depends on whether you see everything as political or not. Let’s choose a children’s story. What about Harry Potter? “Of course it's happening inside your head, Harry, but why should that mean it's not real?”
  - Arainach 3y ago
    The Harry Potter where the villains talk about racial purity, kill people who mix magical and non-magical blood, take over the government and use it to oppress people? That non-political Harry Potter? (Yes, also the Harry Potter where one of the black characters is named Shacklebolt, the goblins are essentially a loosely tied pile of Jewish stereotypes, and plenty of other problems as well)
    - ThrowawayR2 3y ago
      You know you've gone off the deep end when you start thinking of Harry Potter as something that contains intentional political messaging instead of something that overuses convenient off-the-shelf tropes for villains and everything else but manages to tell an engaging tale in spite of it.
      - wishinghand 3y ago
        I think that if you think those tropes are just tropes and not intentional political messaging, then there is no longer any point in discussion with your level of reading comprehension.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]