5 ms·

What's especially weird is the number of people here who are fiercely defensive of the arrangement, with the only rationale being it's the status quo. See also

What's especially weird is the number of people here who are fiercely defensive of the arrangement, with the only rationale being it's the status quo. See also car-centric urban design.

mlrtime 3y ago
What is even more especially weird is that a relativiely new country with 330 million people stretching 2800 miles have different thoughts and opinions. See also group think.
- gorjusborg 3y ago
  There's group-think alright, but I'm not seeing it where you think it is. The medical system in the U.S. is awful, and it really is broken that it is tied to a job. A system where you need to be well enough to work to get care to work is obviously not ideal.
  - edgyquant 3y ago
    The US has government provided healthcare as well for people without jobs or with a low enough income level. It isn’t “tied to your work” that’s just one of many ways in which people choose to get healthcare.
    - spamizbad 3y ago
      Medicaid is pretty complex and runs afoul of you accidentally having too much income or assets despite being functionally low income. When used car prices started trending upward during the pandemic people actually got kicked off medicaid rolls because their vehicle was now too valuable of an asset to make them eligible for benefits. Means-testing is just a very inefficient, clumsy way of providing benefits to people and functionally operates as a tax on those who would benefit from the service but would fail the test.
      - gorjusborg 3y ago
        I've never understood how the right-wing thinks that having a government agency work to determine if people are 'poor enough' to 'earn the right' to have healthcare provided is an efficient use of resources. Seems backwards to me. If we want people to be able to work, basic health is a requirement.
        Alpha3031 3y ago
        A cynic would say that the right-wing isn't about efficient use of resources, it's about a justice where some people deserve to be kept trodden down even if it costs more to do so.
  - cduzz 3y ago
    Is it tied to employment or is it tied to insurance companies who make it punitively expensive to get insurance without being in a group, and that group is typically "employers" ? My wife runs a business and employs, typically, only 1 or 2 people; when they started asking for health insurance we found that getting insurance (as a business) was actually not terribly expensive; at the same time my insurance plans have gotten progressively more crappy. I can't remember, or be bothered to find out -- how expensive is it these days to just get private insurance in the USA if you've got 3 hideously expensive pre existing conditions? I have some vague recollection that the obamacare thing requires that insurance companies offer coverage to people without regard to those preexisting conditions, and intuitively that seems "fair" but it's all such a pile of crap it's frustrating to dig through and demotivating. I assume "that's the way they like it."
    - toast0 3y ago
      > I can't remember, or be bothered to find out -- how expensive is it these days to just get private insurance in the USA if you've got 3 hideously expensive pre existing conditions? I have some vague recollection that the obamacare thing requires that insurance companies offer coverage to people without regard to those preexisting conditions, and intuitively that seems "fair" but it's all such a pile of crap it's frustrating to dig through and demotivating. I assume "that's the way they like it." Take a look at your state's healthcare marketplace site. You should be able to browse plans if you put in your county/zip code and participant ages. Marketplace plans can't charge based on health history, and at least in my area, they all seem to cover the minimum required services and nothing else; they compete on networks and copay/coinsurance. It's not the giant morass of pain that it used to be, but it's still somewhat of a pain, and often employer based plans are better; especially in terms of networks and out of area coverage.
- scotty79 3y ago
  What's weird actually is how unified for such a young and populous country are the opinions of people with money and political power. You know, the ones that actually make the rules everybody else is forced to obey.
slibhb 3y ago
> What's especially weird is the number of people here who are fiercely defensive of the arrangement, with the only rationale being it's the status quo Most Americans (roughly 70%) are happy with their health insurance. That's a reason to be defensive other than it "being the status quo".
- cipheredStones 3y ago
  There's quite a difference between being happy with your insurance and being happy with it being tied to your job. My insurance is fine. The fact that if I were fired tomorrow, my partner and I would suddenly need to either start paying thousands of dollars a month to maintain it via COBRA or scramble to find an entirely new set of doctors and therapists is not fine.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- lambda 3y ago
  Who are these Americans? I have never once been happy with my health insurance; I mean, sure, it beats not having it in this country, but I constantly get billed the wrong amount because someone at the hospital didn't code it exactly the way the insurance company requires, or suddenly my health insurance decides that my doctor or dentist isn't covered so now I have to pay up front and do a song and dance to get reimbursed for some smaller fraction of the price, or whatnot. If I go to the ER (even accidentally, when I asked for urgent care but got directed to the ER instead), I've got a $500 dollar bill waiting for me regardless of what the treatment I needed was. Oh, or I'm on a medication that's prescribed by my doctor, but suddenly the insurance company decides it's not covered and I have to pay hundreds of dollars out of pocked while I chase my doctor down to send them more documentation that yes, they tried other alternatives first and they weren't effective, yes I really do need this medication. And I pay more for this, just in terms of my monthly premiums, not to mention all of the out of pocket and deductible costs, than I would in taxes for healthcare in just about any other developed country. I don't know what metric people are using when saying that they are "happy" with their health insurance, other than comparing it to being uninsured in this country, in which case, sure, it beats that.
klooney 3y ago
Just because it's not ideal doesn't mean it couldn't be worse. It's not like the constant stream of federal management disasters over the past 20 years has been inspiring.

What's especially weird is the number of people here who are fiercely defensive of the arrangement, with the only rationale being it's the status quo. See also car-centric urban design.

mlrtime 3y ago

What is even more especially weird is that a relativiely new country with 330 million people stretching 2800 miles have different thoughts and opinions. See also group think.

gorjusborg 3y ago
There's group-think alright, but I'm not seeing it where you think it is. The medical system in the U.S. is awful, and it really is broken that it is tied to a job. A system where you need to be well enough to work to get care to work is obviously not ideal.
- edgyquant 3y ago
  The US has government provided healthcare as well for people without jobs or with a low enough income level. It isn’t “tied to your work” that’s just one of many ways in which people choose to get healthcare.
  - spamizbad 3y ago
    Medicaid is pretty complex and runs afoul of you accidentally having too much income or assets despite being functionally low income. When used car prices started trending upward during the pandemic people actually got kicked off medicaid rolls because their vehicle was now too valuable of an asset to make them eligible for benefits. Means-testing is just a very inefficient, clumsy way of providing benefits to people and functionally operates as a tax on those who would benefit from the service but would fail the test.
    - gorjusborg 3y ago
      I've never understood how the right-wing thinks that having a government agency work to determine if people are 'poor enough' to 'earn the right' to have healthcare provided is an efficient use of resources. Seems backwards to me. If we want people to be able to work, basic health is a requirement.
      - Alpha3031 3y ago
        A cynic would say that the right-wing isn't about efficient use of resources, it's about a justice where some people deserve to be kept trodden down even if it costs more to do so.
- cduzz 3y ago
  Is it tied to employment or is it tied to insurance companies who make it punitively expensive to get insurance without being in a group, and that group is typically "employers" ? My wife runs a business and employs, typically, only 1 or 2 people; when they started asking for health insurance we found that getting insurance (as a business) was actually not terribly expensive; at the same time my insurance plans have gotten progressively more crappy. I can't remember, or be bothered to find out -- how expensive is it these days to just get private insurance in the USA if you've got 3 hideously expensive pre existing conditions? I have some vague recollection that the obamacare thing requires that insurance companies offer coverage to people without regard to those preexisting conditions, and intuitively that seems "fair" but it's all such a pile of crap it's frustrating to dig through and demotivating. I assume "that's the way they like it."
  - toast0 3y ago
    > I can't remember, or be bothered to find out -- how expensive is it these days to just get private insurance in the USA if you've got 3 hideously expensive pre existing conditions? I have some vague recollection that the obamacare thing requires that insurance companies offer coverage to people without regard to those preexisting conditions, and intuitively that seems "fair" but it's all such a pile of crap it's frustrating to dig through and demotivating. I assume "that's the way they like it." Take a look at your state's healthcare marketplace site. You should be able to browse plans if you put in your county/zip code and participant ages. Marketplace plans can't charge based on health history, and at least in my area, they all seem to cover the minimum required services and nothing else; they compete on networks and copay/coinsurance. It's not the giant morass of pain that it used to be, but it's still somewhat of a pain, and often employer based plans are better; especially in terms of networks and out of area coverage.
scotty79 3y ago
What's weird actually is how unified for such a young and populous country are the opinions of people with money and political power. You know, the ones that actually make the rules everybody else is forced to obey.

slibhb 3y ago

> What's especially weird is the number of people here who are fiercely defensive of the arrangement, with the only rationale being it's the status quo Most Americans (roughly 70%) are happy with their health insurance. That's a reason to be defensive other than it "being the status quo".

cipheredStones 3y ago
There's quite a difference between being happy with your insurance and being happy with it being tied to your job. My insurance is fine. The fact that if I were fired tomorrow, my partner and I would suddenly need to either start paying thousands of dollars a month to maintain it via COBRA or scramble to find an entirely new set of doctors and therapists is not fine.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
lambda 3y ago
Who are these Americans? I have never once been happy with my health insurance; I mean, sure, it beats not having it in this country, but I constantly get billed the wrong amount because someone at the hospital didn't code it exactly the way the insurance company requires, or suddenly my health insurance decides that my doctor or dentist isn't covered so now I have to pay up front and do a song and dance to get reimbursed for some smaller fraction of the price, or whatnot. If I go to the ER (even accidentally, when I asked for urgent care but got directed to the ER instead), I've got a $500 dollar bill waiting for me regardless of what the treatment I needed was. Oh, or I'm on a medication that's prescribed by my doctor, but suddenly the insurance company decides it's not covered and I have to pay hundreds of dollars out of pocked while I chase my doctor down to send them more documentation that yes, they tried other alternatives first and they weren't effective, yes I really do need this medication. And I pay more for this, just in terms of my monthly premiums, not to mention all of the out of pocket and deductible costs, than I would in taxes for healthcare in just about any other developed country. I don't know what metric people are using when saying that they are "happy" with their health insurance, other than comparing it to being uninsured in this country, in which case, sure, it beats that.

klooney 3y ago

Just because it's not ideal doesn't mean it couldn't be worse. It's not like the constant stream of federal management disasters over the past 20 years has been inspiring.