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> I'm guessing that Musk's unwillingness to work with the rules and norms in the markets Tesla is trying to enter, will be Tesla's downfall. Hopefully Tesla cou

> I'm guessing that Musk's unwillingness to work with the rules and norms in the markets Tesla is trying to enter, will be Tesla's downfall. Hopefully Tesla could somehow get rid of Musk as it seems like he is constantly holding Tesla back quite a bit. Like what? Source(s)?

diggan 3y ago
> Like what? Source(s)? Added a link that gives you some additional context.
- belltaco 3y ago
  > Added a link that gives you some additional context. Tesla sold 55% more cars in Nov 2023 compared to Nov 2022, and 9% more in December, so how is that Tesla's downfall? https://carup.se/trots-strejken-tesla-far-ut-fler-bilar-i-sverige/ https://carup.se/trots-strejken-tesla-far-ut-fler-bilar-i-sv... https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-new-car-registrations-sweden-rose-9-dec-2024-01-02/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-... Edit: Ran into the posting limit but the below is certainly false about Sweden, BYD is not selling the most cars there. > BYD are selling the most cars, and is the fastest growing in terms of sales in the country
  - diggan 3y ago
    BYD are selling the most cars, and is the fastest growing in terms of sales in the country. If you're aiming to be the company that produces the most vehicles in the world, it certainly sounds like it's not going in the right direction for them. - "BYD overtakes Tesla - sells the most electric cars" - https://www.mestmotor.se/automotorsport/artiklar/nyheter/20240103/byd-gar-om-tesla-saljer-flest-elbilar/ https://www.mestmotor.se/automotorsport/artiklar/nyheter/202... - "BYD beat Tesla - grew fastest in Sweden in 2023" - https://carup.se/byd-slog-tesla-okade-snabbast-i-sverige-2023/ https://carup.se/byd-slog-tesla-okade-snabbast-i-sverige-202...
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      Isn’t this more like a Huawei vs Apple thing? BYD sells more cars, Tesla makes more money (revenue and profit). It will be more interesting to see what happens as BYD moves more into model 3 territory.
    - ripjaygn 3y ago
      > BYD are selling the most cars, and is the fastest growing in terms of sales in the country Source? BYD aren't selling the most cars in Sweden. > BYD beat Tesla - grew fastest in Sweden in 2023 Tesla sold 20K cars and BYD sold 3K in Sweden in 2023. How is that beating Tesla? They went from 1.1K cars to 3K, so had better percentage growth than Tesla
      - diggan 3y ago
        From one of the links in the comment you're replying to: > Det är i det sista kvartalet 2023 som BYD kan stoltsera med bättre siffror än Tesla. BYD rapporterar att de sålt 526 409 elbilar från och med oktober och fram till årets slut. > Teslas försäljning å sin sida slog rekord och blev den högsta för ett givet kvartal i tillverkarens historia. Resultatet blev 484 507 bilar. 41 902 färre än BYD. --- > It is in the last quarter of 2023 that BYD can boast better figures than Tesla. BYD reports that it sold 526,409 electric cars from October through the end of the year. > Tesla's sales, on the other hand, broke records and became the highest for a given quarter in the manufacturer's history. The result was 484,507 cars. 41,902 fewer than BYD.
        ripjaygn 3y ago
        [dead]
        belltaco 3y ago
        Just because it's in Swedish doesn't mean those are Sweden numbers :) Tesla outsold BYD in Sweden 6 times over.
rad_gruchalski 3y ago
Well, the last example is unions in Sweden. I‘m sure you can google that yourself?
- belltaco 3y ago
  They edited that in after I asked for sources instead of putting it in a reply, and didn't mark it as a later edit. Can't google something that's not there. Not to mention google shows that Tesla sales increased in Sweden in Nov and December 2023 compared to the same months in 2022.
  - diggan 3y ago
    FWIW, the comment you're replying to was created before I made my edit. But no harm, no foul :)
  - rad_gruchalski 3y ago
    You asked for an example, I gave you the last example I am aware of: https://apnews.com/article/tesla-strike-union-sweden-labor-dispute-5124a0074f6b4c5b7f503b5353afe8b3 https://apnews.com/article/tesla-strike-union-sweden-labor-d....
    - belltaco 3y ago
      > About 130 mechanics at 10 Tesla garages across Sweden walked off the job on Oct. 27 over the company’s refusal to sign a collective bargaining agreement This is false reporting, only 10 to 30 of the 130 mechanics "walked off the job". The rest like their stock options and performance based pay hikes instead of the union table rates for all. > About 130 mechanics at 10 Tesla garages across Sweden walked off the job on Oct. 27 over the company’s refusal to sign a collective bargaining agreement This is false reporting, only 10 to 30 of the 130 mechanics "walked off the job". The rest like their stock options and performance based pay hikes instead of the union table rates for all. A lot of other news outlets picked up this false narrative. The number of striking Tesla mechanics is so low that IF Metall refuses to reveal how many are striking, and recently expelled some Tesla employees for not obeying their power play of striking. https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/tesla-teknikern-jobbar-trots-strejken-besviken-pa-facket https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/tesla-teknikern-jobbar-trot... https://www.na.se/2023-11-16/tesla-ar-den-basta-arbetsgivare-jag-haft https://www.na.se/2023-11-16/tesla-ar-den-basta-arbetsgivare... A lot of other news outlets picked up this false narrative from AP and reporting that 130 employees are striking. The number of striking Tesla mechanics is so low that IF Metall refuses to reveal how many are striking, and recently expelled some Tesla employees for not obeying their power play of striking. Recently the NYT finally said only a few dozen are striking. Sad to see previously trustworthy news outlets like AP resorting to abject fake news to smear Tesla and spread a narrative. And it's spread and repeated on places like HN with no critical thinking or research.

diggan 3y ago

> Like what? Source(s)? Added a link that gives you some additional context.

belltaco 3y ago
> Added a link that gives you some additional context. Tesla sold 55% more cars in Nov 2023 compared to Nov 2022, and 9% more in December, so how is that Tesla's downfall? https://carup.se/trots-strejken-tesla-far-ut-fler-bilar-i-sverige/ https://carup.se/trots-strejken-tesla-far-ut-fler-bilar-i-sv... https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-new-car-registrations-sweden-rose-9-dec-2024-01-02/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-... Edit: Ran into the posting limit but the below is certainly false about Sweden, BYD is not selling the most cars there. > BYD are selling the most cars, and is the fastest growing in terms of sales in the country
- diggan 3y ago
  BYD are selling the most cars, and is the fastest growing in terms of sales in the country. If you're aiming to be the company that produces the most vehicles in the world, it certainly sounds like it's not going in the right direction for them. - "BYD overtakes Tesla - sells the most electric cars" - https://www.mestmotor.se/automotorsport/artiklar/nyheter/20240103/byd-gar-om-tesla-saljer-flest-elbilar/ https://www.mestmotor.se/automotorsport/artiklar/nyheter/202... - "BYD beat Tesla - grew fastest in Sweden in 2023" - https://carup.se/byd-slog-tesla-okade-snabbast-i-sverige-2023/ https://carup.se/byd-slog-tesla-okade-snabbast-i-sverige-202...
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Isn’t this more like a Huawei vs Apple thing? BYD sells more cars, Tesla makes more money (revenue and profit). It will be more interesting to see what happens as BYD moves more into model 3 territory.
  - ripjaygn 3y ago
    > BYD are selling the most cars, and is the fastest growing in terms of sales in the country Source? BYD aren't selling the most cars in Sweden. > BYD beat Tesla - grew fastest in Sweden in 2023 Tesla sold 20K cars and BYD sold 3K in Sweden in 2023. How is that beating Tesla? They went from 1.1K cars to 3K, so had better percentage growth than Tesla
    - diggan 3y ago
      From one of the links in the comment you're replying to: > Det är i det sista kvartalet 2023 som BYD kan stoltsera med bättre siffror än Tesla. BYD rapporterar att de sålt 526 409 elbilar från och med oktober och fram till årets slut. > Teslas försäljning å sin sida slog rekord och blev den högsta för ett givet kvartal i tillverkarens historia. Resultatet blev 484 507 bilar. 41 902 färre än BYD. --- > It is in the last quarter of 2023 that BYD can boast better figures than Tesla. BYD reports that it sold 526,409 electric cars from October through the end of the year. > Tesla's sales, on the other hand, broke records and became the highest for a given quarter in the manufacturer's history. The result was 484,507 cars. 41,902 fewer than BYD.
      - ripjaygn 3y ago
        [dead]
      - belltaco 3y ago
        Just because it's in Swedish doesn't mean those are Sweden numbers :) Tesla outsold BYD in Sweden 6 times over.

rad_gruchalski 3y ago

Well, the last example is unions in Sweden. I‘m sure you can google that yourself?

belltaco 3y ago
They edited that in after I asked for sources instead of putting it in a reply, and didn't mark it as a later edit. Can't google something that's not there. Not to mention google shows that Tesla sales increased in Sweden in Nov and December 2023 compared to the same months in 2022.
- diggan 3y ago
  FWIW, the comment you're replying to was created before I made my edit. But no harm, no foul :)
- rad_gruchalski 3y ago
  You asked for an example, I gave you the last example I am aware of: https://apnews.com/article/tesla-strike-union-sweden-labor-dispute-5124a0074f6b4c5b7f503b5353afe8b3 https://apnews.com/article/tesla-strike-union-sweden-labor-d....
  - belltaco 3y ago
    > About 130 mechanics at 10 Tesla garages across Sweden walked off the job on Oct. 27 over the company’s refusal to sign a collective bargaining agreement This is false reporting, only 10 to 30 of the 130 mechanics "walked off the job". The rest like their stock options and performance based pay hikes instead of the union table rates for all. > About 130 mechanics at 10 Tesla garages across Sweden walked off the job on Oct. 27 over the company’s refusal to sign a collective bargaining agreement This is false reporting, only 10 to 30 of the 130 mechanics "walked off the job". The rest like their stock options and performance based pay hikes instead of the union table rates for all. A lot of other news outlets picked up this false narrative. The number of striking Tesla mechanics is so low that IF Metall refuses to reveal how many are striking, and recently expelled some Tesla employees for not obeying their power play of striking. https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/tesla-teknikern-jobbar-trots-strejken-besviken-pa-facket https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/tesla-teknikern-jobbar-trot... https://www.na.se/2023-11-16/tesla-ar-den-basta-arbetsgivare-jag-haft https://www.na.se/2023-11-16/tesla-ar-den-basta-arbetsgivare... A lot of other news outlets picked up this false narrative from AP and reporting that 130 employees are striking. The number of striking Tesla mechanics is so low that IF Metall refuses to reveal how many are striking, and recently expelled some Tesla employees for not obeying their power play of striking. Recently the NYT finally said only a few dozen are striking. Sad to see previously trustworthy news outlets like AP resorting to abject fake news to smear Tesla and spread a narrative. And it's spread and repeated on places like HN with no critical thinking or research.