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Agreed. I find C easier to understand than the algebra of other languages such as Haskell, Ocaml, Rust because of how C statements correspond to assembly. Mem

Agreed. I find C easier to understand than the algebra of other languages such as Haskell, Ocaml, Rust because of how C statements correspond to assembly. Memory is just a big grid of numbered locations and computing is logistics between grid locations. Execution is transition between memory locations. LEAQ or "&" (C addressof) is an address calculation or LEAQ for one of those grid locations.

IshKebab 3y ago
> C statements correspond to assembly True in the 80s maybe. Not remotely true now.
- samsquire 3y ago
  I don't mean that there is a 1-1 constant relation between C statements and exact assembly, but if you run gcc with -S or run objdump -b binary -Matt,x86-64 -D main.bin -m i386 ; (note: this command places the assembly and C code side next to eachother, I think you have to compile with -g debug flag with gcc) You can work that the assembly implements the semantics of C's virtual machine model and it is this that I find easier to understand than some algebraic systems. I kind of think of struct->ptrarray[indx]->struct.something corresponds to the calculation of ultimately a single memory address even if there is various shift lefts or adds or ors. Java has its template interpreter which is interesting to read about and there is copy and patch JIT compilers.
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    You can do the same in any compiled language, including Java. Sun's Forte Pro was one of the first IDEs to have such capability for Java.
  - IshKebab 3y ago
    Sure but the relationship between assembly and source lines can be very complicated, even for trivial code: https://godbolt.org/z/hjW4T934q https://godbolt.org/z/hjW4T934q And that capability is not remotely unique to C - look at the list of languages Godbolt supports! Not all of them support linking source code to assembly but a large number do: C++, Rust, Zig, Ada, even Dart.
  - IshKebab 3y ago
    I don't think the correspondence between C and assembly is really significantly higher than Rust, Zig or even Go.

IshKebab 3y ago

> C statements correspond to assembly True in the 80s maybe. Not remotely true now.

samsquire 3y ago
I don't mean that there is a 1-1 constant relation between C statements and exact assembly, but if you run gcc with -S or run objdump -b binary -Matt,x86-64 -D main.bin -m i386 ; (note: this command places the assembly and C code side next to eachother, I think you have to compile with -g debug flag with gcc) You can work that the assembly implements the semantics of C's virtual machine model and it is this that I find easier to understand than some algebraic systems. I kind of think of struct->ptrarray[indx]->struct.something corresponds to the calculation of ultimately a single memory address even if there is various shift lefts or adds or ors. Java has its template interpreter which is interesting to read about and there is copy and patch JIT compilers.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  You can do the same in any compiled language, including Java. Sun's Forte Pro was one of the first IDEs to have such capability for Java.
- IshKebab 3y ago
  Sure but the relationship between assembly and source lines can be very complicated, even for trivial code: https://godbolt.org/z/hjW4T934q https://godbolt.org/z/hjW4T934q And that capability is not remotely unique to C - look at the list of languages Godbolt supports! Not all of them support linking source code to assembly but a large number do: C++, Rust, Zig, Ada, even Dart.
- IshKebab 3y ago
  I don't think the correspondence between C and assembly is really significantly higher than Rust, Zig or even Go.