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Key words being "medieval and later," because it didn't start that way. The wiki on Morgan le Fey begins > Early appearances of Morgan in Arthurian literature

by tines 3y ago

Key words being "medieval and later," because it didn't start that way. The wiki on Morgan le Fey begins > Early appearances of Morgan in Arthurian literature do not elaborate her character beyond her role as a goddess, a fay, a witch, or a sorceress, generally benevolent and connected to Arthur as his magical saviour and protector. So, migration to amorality was a later development. > Also Obi-wan and Vader may have supernatural powers but they act more like knights than wizards. Alright, if you want to say that because of their lightsaber combat. There's also Yoda and the Emperor, neither of whom use "swords" in the original series, they're totally dependent on their magic.

staticman2 3y ago
You wrote "Historically and in most modern media, wizards are strongly associated with either good or evil." This claim isn't true insofar as historically Merlin and Morgan do both good and evil things. Now you seem to be moving the goal posts and claiming medieval isn't historical. You can also look at Medea, who is helper/ healer to Jason and also a ruthless killer at many points in her life. >>Alright, if you want to say that because of their lightsaber combat. There's also Yoda and the Emperor, neither of whom use "swords" in the original series, they're totally dependent on their magic. Well, for one thing, they aren't using magic, they are using "the force." Now you can say it's just magic with a different name, but that's sort of like saying a exorcist or saint in the Christian tradition is doing magic. There's a fun bit in Good Omens about that: -- “Occult forces?” “You and me,” explained Crowley. “I’m not occult,” said Aziraphale. “Angels aren’t occult. We’re ethereal.” -- At any rate to me The Emperor seems more like a demon/ devil figure, and Yoga more like a saint, Buddha, or monk, than a wizard. Though I realize the distinction is in the eye of the beholder.

by tines 3y ago

staticman2 3y ago

You wrote "Historically and in most modern media, wizards are strongly associated with either good or evil." This claim isn't true insofar as historically Merlin and Morgan do both good and evil things. Now you seem to be moving the goal posts and claiming medieval isn't historical. You can also look at Medea, who is helper/ healer to Jason and also a ruthless killer at many points in her life. >>Alright, if you want to say that because of their lightsaber combat. There's also Yoda and the Emperor, neither of whom use "swords" in the original series, they're totally dependent on their magic. Well, for one thing, they aren't using magic, they are using "the force." Now you can say it's just magic with a different name, but that's sort of like saying a exorcist or saint in the Christian tradition is doing magic. There's a fun bit in Good Omens about that: -- “Occult forces?” “You and me,” explained Crowley. “I’m not occult,” said Aziraphale. “Angels aren’t occult. We’re ethereal.” -- At any rate to me The Emperor seems more like a demon/ devil figure, and Yoga more like a saint, Buddha, or monk, than a wizard. Though I realize the distinction is in the eye of the beholder.