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Same, and I wonder if it'll share a chapter with Tesla's prematurely shipped autonomous features, related deaths, and the dishonest messaging surrounding it. C

Same, and I wonder if it'll share a chapter with Tesla's prematurely shipped autonomous features, related deaths, and the dishonest messaging surrounding it. Considering the MCAS[0] failures were largely software defects in an autonomous system, seems plausible to me... [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maneuvering_Characteristics_Augmentation_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maneuvering_Characteristics_Au...

brandonagr2 3y ago
What are you talking about, Tesla doesn't ship any autonomous features. Driver assist features do not make a car autonomous. Tesla has always plainly said you must monitor the car at all times autopilot is engaged, the exact same way that turning on cruise control in any other car doesn't make the car autonomous even though the car is managing the speed.
- pengaru 3y ago
  > What are you talking about, Tesla doesn't ship any autonomous features. Driver assist features do not make a car autonomous. Tesla has always plainly said you must monitor the car at all times autopilot is engaged, the exact same way that turning on cruise control in any other car doesn't make the car autonomous even though the car is managing the speed. What are you talking about? What Tesla markets and sells falls into SAE Autonomous Ground Vehicle classifications, just not level 5. Nothing I wrote spoke to anything Tesla sells being L5 (or any particular level at all). Edit: On the topic of MCAS, it strikes me as a system akin to around an SAE L2/L3, overriding pilot inputs to prevent a perceived crash/stall risk. This AIUI is well within the autonomy space Teslas operate...
- VintageCool 3y ago
  Quite right old chap! Surely no reasonable consumer would interpret terms like "Autopilot" or "Full Self Driving" to mean that the car autonomously drives itself!
  - twaw 3y ago
    You can lookup "autopilot" definition in a dictionary
sebzim4500 3y ago
In the case of Tesla they make the argument that the safety features have saved far more than they have injured/killed. Inexplicably, there is no federal agency that actually checks these things. In this case I don't see how you could make the same argument, clearly the new planes were not safer than the old ones or they wouldn't have been grounded.
- tw04 3y ago
  Based on my experience with Tesla’s autonomous driving software, there is no planet on which that’s true. It is quite literally worse than anyone I can imagine driving unless they’re high, drunk, texting, and doing 30+mph over the speed limit. I’ve come across an unfortunate number of drunk drivers in my time on this earth driving and I can say I’ve never once seen or heard of a drunk slamming on their brakes at 70mph because of a tree shadow across the road. I’ve personally experienced and seen someone else’s Tesla do it on multiple occasions. I can anticipate and avoid a drunk driver in many situations. I’d never expect that behavior out of any human driver.
  - spookie 3y ago
    And yet one sees people talking the fearure up all day on the internet, as if it's safer than human drivers. When I see such comments, I seriously question if they've ever driven a car and came across a Tesla in "self-driving" mode. Just to add to the conversation a bit more: Humans give away their intentions in more ways than turn signals, as a human you subconsciously know what the other is trying to do, just by watching. It's difficult to explain, and you gotta have driven a car to understand. These self-driving vehicles aren't even close to mimicking that aspect. Leading us, humans on the road, a bit more clueless on what's going on.
  - oska 3y ago
    > I’d never expect that behavior out of any human driver. People will slam on the brakes when they see an animal run out on the road. It's generally considered better driving practice to not do that, as you risk rear end collisions, but that behaviour from humans does exist.

brandonagr2 3y ago

What are you talking about, Tesla doesn't ship any autonomous features. Driver assist features do not make a car autonomous. Tesla has always plainly said you must monitor the car at all times autopilot is engaged, the exact same way that turning on cruise control in any other car doesn't make the car autonomous even though the car is managing the speed.

pengaru 3y ago
> What are you talking about, Tesla doesn't ship any autonomous features. Driver assist features do not make a car autonomous. Tesla has always plainly said you must monitor the car at all times autopilot is engaged, the exact same way that turning on cruise control in any other car doesn't make the car autonomous even though the car is managing the speed. What are you talking about? What Tesla markets and sells falls into SAE Autonomous Ground Vehicle classifications, just not level 5. Nothing I wrote spoke to anything Tesla sells being L5 (or any particular level at all). Edit: On the topic of MCAS, it strikes me as a system akin to around an SAE L2/L3, overriding pilot inputs to prevent a perceived crash/stall risk. This AIUI is well within the autonomy space Teslas operate...
VintageCool 3y ago
Quite right old chap! Surely no reasonable consumer would interpret terms like "Autopilot" or "Full Self Driving" to mean that the car autonomously drives itself!
- twaw 3y ago
  You can lookup "autopilot" definition in a dictionary

sebzim4500 3y ago

In the case of Tesla they make the argument that the safety features have saved far more than they have injured/killed. Inexplicably, there is no federal agency that actually checks these things. In this case I don't see how you could make the same argument, clearly the new planes were not safer than the old ones or they wouldn't have been grounded.

tw04 3y ago
Based on my experience with Tesla’s autonomous driving software, there is no planet on which that’s true. It is quite literally worse than anyone I can imagine driving unless they’re high, drunk, texting, and doing 30+mph over the speed limit. I’ve come across an unfortunate number of drunk drivers in my time on this earth driving and I can say I’ve never once seen or heard of a drunk slamming on their brakes at 70mph because of a tree shadow across the road. I’ve personally experienced and seen someone else’s Tesla do it on multiple occasions. I can anticipate and avoid a drunk driver in many situations. I’d never expect that behavior out of any human driver.
- spookie 3y ago
  And yet one sees people talking the fearure up all day on the internet, as if it's safer than human drivers. When I see such comments, I seriously question if they've ever driven a car and came across a Tesla in "self-driving" mode. Just to add to the conversation a bit more: Humans give away their intentions in more ways than turn signals, as a human you subconsciously know what the other is trying to do, just by watching. It's difficult to explain, and you gotta have driven a car to understand. These self-driving vehicles aren't even close to mimicking that aspect. Leading us, humans on the road, a bit more clueless on what's going on.
- oska 3y ago
  > I’d never expect that behavior out of any human driver. People will slam on the brakes when they see an animal run out on the road. It's generally considered better driving practice to not do that, as you risk rear end collisions, but that behaviour from humans does exist.