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A week with a Ford F-150 Lightning
- fasteddie31003 3y agoThis is why the Cybertruck is 4-wheel steer.
- kstrauser 3y agoI assumed it was because quality control was having trouble getting all 4 wheels pointed in the same direction, so they leaned into it.
- iancmceachern 3y agoI live in an apartment in San Francisco and my wife and I drive a diesel F-250. We admittedly use it mostly to pull our RV (we live a good part of the year travelling in our RV around California and the southwest). It is our family car though and we do use it around the city. I park it in an underground garage. It's actually way more workable than it would seem.
- digital-cygnet 3y agoHow do you feel about your impact on others on the roads? Driving such a vehicle through populated areas means you're putting pedestrians and cyclists at significantly higher risk due to lessened visibility and hood height[1], blocking other drivers' views, and exposing people nearby to toxic diesel fumes [2]. The majority of the problems with driving a large vehicle in a city are not borne by the owner thereof. To be clear, my point isn't to try to make you feel bad about your choice, but to demonstrate why it's bad on a societal level to have this profusion of large vehicles. Societal problems need societal solutions. [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/us/tall-trucks-suvs-are-45-deadlier-us-pedestrians-study-shows-2023-11-14/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/tall-trucks-suvs-are-45-dea... [2] https://www.epa.gov/dera/learn-about-impacts-diesel-exhaust-and-diesel-emissions-reduction-act-dera https://www.epa.gov/dera/learn-about-impacts-diesel-exhaust-...
- NotSuspicious 3y agoAre you vegan?
- skyyler 3y agoCaring about other people is the domain of vegans?
- ThrowawayTestr 3y agoSounds like a you problem not a me problem
- briffle 3y agoif its a modern diesel (after about 2010 or so) it uses DEF along with its EGR and SCR systems and does not put out the NOx and particulates that the older diesels do.
- runjake 3y agoSo he should have two vehicles? One for city driving and one for travel and pulling his RV?
- iancmceachern 3y agoI do. My car is the smallest available 4 seat car in the US. I actually don't use either often to commute, I bike. As I said, we use the truck for RV travel mostly.
- earthling8118 3y agoYes I would say it is proper to use the correct tool for the job at hand.
- iancmceachern 3y agoIt's modern diesel engine (2019). The exhaust that comes out is cleaner than many small 2 stroke motorcycle engines, lawn mower engines,etc. Also way cleaner than that old Mercedes diesel you are running your biodiesel in. I live right where the interstate dumps into the city, we have soot on our windows. The problem is real, but the diesel trucks, big trucks, are 95% of the problem, not the 5k miles I drive a year in my truck.
- yardie 3y agoI live in condo with a parking garage. A Sierra parked directly across from a RAM and basically blocked all the cars above the 3rd floor in the garage. While I believe it is workable to keep such a large truck in the city I also doubt it is practical.
- iancmceachern 3y agoThat person sounds like an ass. I dont do those things. It's actually extremely convenient because I run my own business. Being able to do things you need for your business without renting a truck is very useful. I do a lot of hardware building, equipment moving, etc. Walk outside in any city and you will see tradespeoples trucks, vans. That's me.
- BeetleB 3y agoIs it any bigger than any other F-150? Cities are full of them, so it's silly saying they're too big for city life.
- paxys 3y ago"Cities are full of them" and "they are too big for city life" can both be true.
- gopher2000 3y agoIt just makes it a strange argument to use against the Lightning, specifically.
- 98codes 3y agoIf it were exactly the same size it could still be silly for city life, depending on the city, the neighborhood, etc. Because it awkwardly sticks out in parking lots? Because you like how it makes you feel, and even better how it makes others feel? That's silly. Because it's impossible to find parallel street parking (and take up 2-3 spaces when you do) and makes it much easier to hit unseen pedestrians in crowded areas and older layouts with tight corners? Because you need it for work? Not at all silly.
- bombcar 3y agoThe shortest F-150 is 122", which is a whooping 8 inches longer than a Model S. The longest F-150 is 157", which is about 3 feet longer. An F-150 isn't taking three parking spaces unless they're for Mini Coopers or something.
- paxys 3y agoThe majority of vehicles on American roads are realistically too big for city life. That doesn't stop anyone from driving them.
- thallium205 3y agoThe US government has mandated that vehicles be large due to CAFE regulations.
- gruez 3y agoSource? I looked into this earlier[1] and so far as I can tell, while CAFE regulations encourage cars to be large, they're far from being "mandated". Subcompacts on the market in Europe that aren't sold in the US would still comply with CAFE regulations, so the characterization is misleading at best. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38799190 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38799190
- AnarchismIsCool 3y agoThe person who stated 90mpg in the linked thread is nuts. The issue isn't the regulation itself but how it's shaped the industry. Up until very recently it was basically impossible to make a pickup truck style vehicle meet CAFE standards so they stopped making any pickups that were regulated under that standard. Instead they switched to making "trucks", unencumbered by regulations, which had to be over a certain weight (read: huge). Before CAFE, there were tons of tiny pickup trucks like the early gen rangers/tacomas. Once CAFE hit, those same trucks suddenly became huge road tanks.
- briffle 3y agoThat was the case for a few years, but its turning back now. It used to be anything over 7500lbs was exempted from mileage standards, plus, they could be depreciated faster on taxes if you owned a small business. that is why so many small business owners had a very, very large SUV. However the high cost of fuel has helped change that, and now the Suburban, and all 1/2 ton pickups are offered with a very small diesel engine (around 3.6L i think) that gets > 27Mpg.
- palemoonale 3y agoPah, nothing special. Try to drive some ugly Toyota Yaris instead, way too impractical for everything besides getting a parking spot.
- aidenn0 3y agoThe lead photo shows it next to a Volvo XC40[1], not a Yaris. Yes, pickups are nice at certain times (I have fit dimensional lumber into my Mazda 3, but it wasn't pretty), but modern trucks are just silly. The Maverick is larger than an old Ford Ranger yet has a smaller bed. 1: https://www.volvocars.com/us/cars/xc40/ https://www.volvocars.com/us/cars/xc40/
- aidenn0 3y agoAside from how tall "light duty" pickups are these days (I can't see over the hood of one when in my car, though I think the Silverado is worse than the F-150), I wish they would mount the headlights lower. There's plenty of space between the lights and the bumper, so there is room to do it.
- ramesh31 3y agoFord could totally change the game with a 60kwH Maverick EV sold in volume. But those margins are just too fat on the "luxury truck" market that has come to dominate US automaker strategies. I don't see anything even on the horizon from the Japanese (or GM for that matter) that could touch them in that market.
- GenerWork 3y agoFord's having a hard time producing the Maverick in general, no way are they going to go to a pure EV Maverick when the existing hybrid is hard to come by.
- ramesh31 3y ago>Ford's having a hard time producing the Maverick in general, no way are they going to go to a pure EV Maverick when the existing hybrid is hard to come by. Yeah I guess my point being, if they hadn't misallocated far too many resources to the Lightning (based on how many are sitting on dealer lots now), and instead had hedged their bets between Lightning and a Maverick EV (both in lower volumes), they'd be in a far better place right now. But Bill Ford was all in on the Lightning as a flagship branding push alongside Mach-E during the peak of initial EV hype, so here we are. No doubt the only reason they offered hybrid for Maverick instead of pure EV was to not cannibalize F-150/Mustang battery supply. Everyone and their uncle wants to buy a $30/40k EV pickup truck right now, and Ford could easily sell one profitably. Hopefully it catches on. Of all the legacy manufacturers, they're in the best possible position to undercut Rivian/Tesla on one of the largest market segments in the US.
- ChainOfFools 3y agoi've heard from a few acquaintances who have sold at Ford dealerships refer to their fircely brand-loyal truck customers as "grapes," and greatly prefer them to car buyers for that reason.
- bryanlarsen 3y agoMy brother rented a truck from Home Depot this week. $30 + gas, zero hassle. Far better option for most city dwellers than owning their own truck, IMO.
- bdcravens 3y agoThis is the ideal world: get what's practical for everyday life, and rent the power tool when you need it.
- steve_adams_86 3y agoAn argument against this is that you will “own nothing”, but I sometimes feel like these tools I’ve acquired are more of a burden than they should be. Yes it’s convenient to have a table saw when I need it, but… I use it very occasionally, and I know well in advance when I’ll be using it. It would be really nice to own a cleaner, more spacious home rather than a bunch of tools, most days.
- yifanl 3y agoThe counterpoint there is that it's plain inefficient if everyone had to own everything. It's great that there's the option for the ones who want it I suppose, but as you've pointed out, from my perspective it's really just hoarding to have all these "justincases" hiding in the attic.
- kemayo 3y agoYeah, I own a Honda Fit, and buying a sub-$20k subcompact car for daily use and being willing to do short-term rentals of something when I need to (very rarely, the Fit has a lot of cargo space for its size) has been an excellent trade-off. Particularly since in daily life having decent gas mileage and being able to park in any available spot is far more useful... The main drawback of owning it, honestly, is that there's always the worry that someone in a behemoth pickup will collide with me, and I'd come off the worse from that. I'm sure there are people out there who actually need the capacity of a pickup truck... but I don't think that most of the people who own one actually do. Certainly not the people you see driving them in town with an empty bed.
- bdcravens 3y agoHouston didn't get the memo. I suspect the streets, parking lots, etc are all built with trucks in mind.
- GenerWork 3y agoDC isn't really a place for any pickup the size of a F-150. If we're sticking with Ford products, the Maverick and Ranger are much more appropriate pickup.
- forgetfreeman 3y agoDC is going to find a way to punish you regardless of what you're driving but I can confirm driving a full sized truck inside the beltway is a special slice of hell.
- forgetfreeman 3y ago[flagged]
- bryanlarsen 3y agoHis full time job is reviewing cars.
- forgetfreeman 3y agoPerhaps he should stick to that then instead of whatever this rambling in-other-news-water-is-wet word salad was intended to be.
- sonicanatidae 3y ago[flagged]
- PeterHolzwarth 3y agoFunny, I often feel a similar way about bicyclists here in the city, especially the "self-entitled idiots" part.
- dopidopHN 3y agoAre idiotic bikers putting other life at risk or hoarding shared space? Or is it their attitude alone that irks you?
- cooper_ganglia 3y agoI agree, I’d rather be driving behind ten F-150s going the speed limit through town rather than 1 bicyclist holding up an entire lane of traffic behind them.
- caconym_ 3y agoEvery class of road users has jerks in it, because all drivers, riders, and walkers are human, and conflicts can be inflamed by local road design and driving culture. Personally, I find it much more productive to focus on the economic and public health impacts of the various available forms of transit, rather than building my view of the Problems with Transit around the things that personally inconvenience me. Large pickup trucks in particular are a public health catastrophe. They kill occupants of other vehicles in collisions at about 2.5x the rate of other vehicle types (cars and SUVs), and they have abysmal pedestrian safety performance. On top of their high fuel consumption and emissions baseline, there is a nationwide trend called "coal rolling" in which truck owners modify their vehicles to produce thick black exhaust full of NOx, which bystanders are then forced to breathe. Pickup truck drivers also have some of the highest DUI rates around. Even setting aside my personal anecdotal observation that pickup truck drivers are by far the most aggressive and unsafe class of drivers on the road, it's clear that if we actually cared as a society about saving human lives, we would take measures to drastically curtail the use of large pickup trucks on public roads tomorrow. In comparison, though it does happen, it's vanishingly rare for cyclists to cause serious injury or death to bystanders, and they have zero emissions beyond manufacture and delivery. In my opinion, anybody drawing any kind of equivalence between the harm done by bikes and the harm done by large pickup trucks in the public transit sphere needs to do some serious introspection.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- alberth 3y agoThe author is clearly not the target buyer, why would they be the reviewer? The Lightning is no bigger than a typical F-150. And the F-150 is the #1 best selling vehicle (on a # of units basis) than any other vehicle in the US (car or truck). States like Texas, residents in rural areas throughout the US, and Trade's people - love trucks and they love in particular Ford. For Trade roles, this Lightning truck is super exciting. The Fuel savings is huge for this buyer, and the ability to plug in all of your power tools directly into the truck to be used at the worksite is huge benefit. Note: I don't even own a truck, but this is a very frustrating article to read due to the author being so uninformed. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g43553191/bestselling-cars-2023/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g43553191/bestselling-cars...
- jader201 3y agoYeah, this article is just clickbait, and doesn’t belong on HN IMO.
- coffeebeqn 3y agoVery anecdotal but most F-150 owners where I’m in in the Midwest use them for groceries and school drop offs. To me it seems like buying a $2000 drill to punch one hole in drywall but who am I to judge what people choose to signal with. People in trades generally seem to use beat up vans or beat up whatever truck is cheap and runs and you don’t mind it getting dinged
- bdcravens 3y agoI liken it to people with $3000 Macbook Pros to surf the web. That said, I live in Houston where pickups reign, and the F-150 is probably the most common. When you have a truck at your disposal all the time, you make different choices about what you buy, when you buy it, etc. Traffic jam on the freeway? You regularly see trucks cross the curb, into the grass, and onto the feeder road. Also it influences your lifestyle. Impromptu camping etc is not a concern. Our company is a software company in the shipping space, but my boss drives a 4x4 because he owns land that he goes to every weekend.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- dehrmann 3y agoSure, but city dwellers aren't really the market for any F-150.
- krapp 3y agoSure they are. The F-150 is the most popular truck in the US. It's a prestige vehicle - most buy it for the looks, and part of that look is the size and aggressiveness, and the vast majority are purchased in cities. Obviously Ford doesn't make a truck that expensive and market it that heavily just to target the rural market, that would be suicide.
- ChainOfFools 3y agoInside the Beltway is still a pretty huge space compared to the built up parts of DC. There are large swaths of suburban Maryland and almost semi rural bits of Virginia in there that are just fine to drive large vehicles in, although they're still largely unnecessary unless you're an actual commercial contractor or something. I would rank Virginia's absolutely absurd speed limit enforcement policies as a far greater threat to ones sanity then trying to pickup-friendly street parking in say Fallc Church or College Park. Now within the stones of DC... I would definitely do whatever it takes to avoid driving anything larger than a Sentra on a regular basis.
- legitster 3y ago> At the same time, I realize I'm not the Lightning's intended audience. I have no need for a pickup truck in my life, as evinced[sic] by the fact that I never once used the Lightning's bed. And I didn't grow up with pictures of trucks on my walls, so they hold little cultural significance for me. But for those for whom trucks do resonate (and as long as you don't care about towing), check out one of the cheaper trims. You might find that once it's in its element, the Lightning is actually quite good.
- falcolas 3y agoSo, I heard an argument for getting a truck instead of a car, and while I don't necessarily agree with it, I feel it's worth spreading. 1) Safety - you're more likely to survive a major accident in a truck, since you won't be out-sized by every other truck on the road. My take: An annoying argument since it's trucks that created this problem in the first place, but a plethora of trucks are already on the road. 2) Mileage isn't much worse than cars - especially with electric and hybrid options. A hybrid truck can get up to 45 MPG, which is only a bit behind a Prius. The lightning is a bit better than half as efficient as a Model 3, but has a larger battery. My take: This surprised me, especially the hybrid capabilities. But the last truck I drove had a sub-10 MPG, though it was from the 70's. 3) Comfort. There's something to be said for having a larger body vehicle when it comes to providing for basic creature comforts. My take: Can confirm. Especially as I age, getting into a (non-lifted) truck is a lot simpler and less painful than my Prius. 4) Price is on par with cars. The base trim lightning is on par with the base trim of the Hyundai Ionic 6, and less than $10k more than the model 3. My take: Whoa. 5) Raw horsepower. When you need to hit the gas to avoid a problem, you'll get the response. Doubly so with an electric truck. My take: Perhaps a reason the average driver shouldn't get a truck. Am I going to buy a pickup? Probably not. But... I have a better understanding of why some people will.
- JoeAltmaier 3y agoMileage is complicated. My gas F150 gets 16MPG. The electric one (after some mysterious convertion) does 28. That seems kind of competitive. Nowhere near as good as my wife's CRV - she gets between 32 and 40 depending on the route and the temperature.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- JoeAltmaier 3y agoThe picture shows he knew half of what he needed to. You back into parking spaces, but you choose one if possible, with a grass verge, so you can back three feet past the end of the pavement. He was up against a fence (still had a foot or two further he could have gotten it backed in). Or in a big box store, park on one end (with the other pickup trucks) pulling fully into a space and sticking three feet into the next one across. So your tail doesn't get clipped by cars cruising the lot.
- latchkey 3y agoI just took a trip around Arizona in my campervan. The lowest I paid for gas was $1.99 (with a $1 off promotion from Chevron, but all the apps have some sort of discount... and you don't even have to pay cash!). Gas is absurdly cheap and people there seem to drive with a lead foot. Until that changes, I don't think people will stop buying giant vehicles.