3 ms·

No, that’s wrong, TVC do the same work on the same teams as “real” employees.

by sjwhevvvvvsj 3y ago

Manuel_D 3y ago
I'd be interested in details on how Google is using TVCs for the same functions as full time employees.
- refulgentis 3y ago
  I'm not sure what exactly you're expecting here, even if someone was like "yeah sure let me pick a public fight with the trillion dollar company". Vouch: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38874378 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38874378
  - Manuel_D 3y ago
    Some of us have a higher epistemic threshold than, "people on HN say it happens".
    - refulgentis 3y ago
      This is the 5th or 6th time you've written a reply like this to me, after I pointed out I worked at Google
      - Manuel_D 3y ago
        Because you're just saying this happens, without actually detailing an example of it happening. What teams are using contract work for the same functions as fill time work? What specific work items are being done by both full time and contractors? Right now you're not giving any details or other way to confirm your claims besides "I work at Google, trust me bro." There are plenty of people who work at Google that say the opposite, that contractors aren't doing the same work as full time employees.
        refulgentis 3y ago
        Yeah I asked for deets on what you needed to know 3 times yesterday, the only time you acknowledged it was to complain at length you were being linked to another comment. > What teams are using contract work for the same functions as fill time work? Are you asking for the organizations, teams, projects, managers to be named? Depending on what you need, that's a lot of exposure and I'm not sure that'll assuage your concerns its "trust me bro". I have seen it in the ******** and ****** organizations. > What specific work items are being done by both full time and contractors? Software engineering and design. They're embedded in the teams, there was never a single difference between my TVC/non-TVC ex-coworkers other than their security badge color. They were not brought on for temporary or time-bounded projects. Before you follow up: I appreciate your skepticism, but it's unclear if it's earnest or a lure. I don't have any legal protection from a trillion dollar company so I can't write a gossip-y essay naming names and giving you case studies, but I'm happy to answer any questions short of that. Like I said yesterday, it's very unclear what specifically what change your mind here -- especially now that you're claiming "plenty [of Googlers] say it isn't true". There isn't a single comment on this entire article, and it tremendously beggars belief that any Googler would tell you it wasn't true. If I worked at McDonald's, its like a stranger yelling at me that I'm lying because other McDonald's employees said no one has to wear a nametag. Please consider the emotions you implicitly communicate, it's quite frightening interacting with you given how aggressively you're communicating.
        Manuel_D 3y ago
        Every example of contract work at Google I've been given has shown clear separation between contract work and FTEs. At google maps, contractors are driving around taking street photos or identifying roads on satellite imagery. FTEs are writing software for Google Maps that uses this data. Even media outlets that are negative towards Google's use of contractors highlight that these contractors are used for specific needs outside of what FTEs do [1]: > Google does not directly employ the workers who collect or create the data required for much of its technology, be they the drivers who capture photos for Google Maps’ Street View, the content moderators training YouTube’s filters to catch prohibited material, or the scanners flipping pages to upload the contents of libraries into Google Books. > Having these two tiers of workers – highly paid full-time Googlers and often low-wage and precarious workers contracted through staffing firms – is “corrosive”, “highly problematic”, and “permissive of exploitation”, the employees said. While some may be disgusted with the segregation between the two "tiers" of FTEs doing software development and contractors doing manual labor, the fact that the workforce is starkly separated into two different tiers goes to show just how separate these two segments of the workforce really are. Most of the coverage of Google's contracting emphasizes these points: how separate and unequal the contract and full-time workers are. Now there's an anonymous internet commenter claiming to work at Google insisting that this is not the case - but unwilling to actually specify what team or organization is actually using contract workers for the same functions at FTEs. Is it really "frightening" and "aggressive" that I don't find these anonymous, non-specific allegations more compelling than the writings by people with their real names attached to their claims? 1. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/may/28/a-white-collar-sweatshop-google-assistant-contractors-allege-wage-theft https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/may/28/a-white-c...
- sjwhevvvvvsj 3y ago
  Literally same tasks, same teams. One person has a Googley badge one has a red badge. One gets various Googley perks, one doesn’t. One is treated with the four respects; one isn’t.
  - Ferret7446 3y ago
    You've listed quite a lot of actual differences. I don't think working on the same tasks makes a vendor into an employee.
  - Manuel_D 3y ago
    Again, is there anything evidence for this happening besides "people on HN say so"? The New York Times wrote a piece on Google's contractors, and the closest it comes to making this claim is writing that they "sometimes work side by side" with full time employees. That's not even close to saying they're doing the same job, though. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/28/technology/google-temp-workers.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/28/technology/google-temp-wo...
- sjwhevvvvvsj 3y ago
  [flagged]
heavyset_go 3y ago
If you have information, please get in touch with the workers' legal representatives or the NLRB.

No, that’s wrong, TVC do the same work on the same teams as “real” employees.

Manuel_D 3y ago

I'd be interested in details on how Google is using TVCs for the same functions as full time employees.

refulgentis 3y ago
I'm not sure what exactly you're expecting here, even if someone was like "yeah sure let me pick a public fight with the trillion dollar company". Vouch: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38874378 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38874378
- Manuel_D 3y ago
  Some of us have a higher epistemic threshold than, "people on HN say it happens".
  - refulgentis 3y ago
    This is the 5th or 6th time you've written a reply like this to me, after I pointed out I worked at Google
    - Manuel_D 3y ago
      Because you're just saying this happens, without actually detailing an example of it happening. What teams are using contract work for the same functions as fill time work? What specific work items are being done by both full time and contractors? Right now you're not giving any details or other way to confirm your claims besides "I work at Google, trust me bro." There are plenty of people who work at Google that say the opposite, that contractors aren't doing the same work as full time employees.
      - refulgentis 3y ago
        Yeah I asked for deets on what you needed to know 3 times yesterday, the only time you acknowledged it was to complain at length you were being linked to another comment. > What teams are using contract work for the same functions as fill time work? Are you asking for the organizations, teams, projects, managers to be named? Depending on what you need, that's a lot of exposure and I'm not sure that'll assuage your concerns its "trust me bro". I have seen it in the ******** and ****** organizations. > What specific work items are being done by both full time and contractors? Software engineering and design. They're embedded in the teams, there was never a single difference between my TVC/non-TVC ex-coworkers other than their security badge color. They were not brought on for temporary or time-bounded projects. Before you follow up: I appreciate your skepticism, but it's unclear if it's earnest or a lure. I don't have any legal protection from a trillion dollar company so I can't write a gossip-y essay naming names and giving you case studies, but I'm happy to answer any questions short of that. Like I said yesterday, it's very unclear what specifically what change your mind here -- especially now that you're claiming "plenty [of Googlers] say it isn't true". There isn't a single comment on this entire article, and it tremendously beggars belief that any Googler would tell you it wasn't true. If I worked at McDonald's, its like a stranger yelling at me that I'm lying because other McDonald's employees said no one has to wear a nametag. Please consider the emotions you implicitly communicate, it's quite frightening interacting with you given how aggressively you're communicating.
        Manuel_D 3y ago
        Every example of contract work at Google I've been given has shown clear separation between contract work and FTEs. At google maps, contractors are driving around taking street photos or identifying roads on satellite imagery. FTEs are writing software for Google Maps that uses this data. Even media outlets that are negative towards Google's use of contractors highlight that these contractors are used for specific needs outside of what FTEs do [1]: > Google does not directly employ the workers who collect or create the data required for much of its technology, be they the drivers who capture photos for Google Maps’ Street View, the content moderators training YouTube’s filters to catch prohibited material, or the scanners flipping pages to upload the contents of libraries into Google Books. > Having these two tiers of workers – highly paid full-time Googlers and often low-wage and precarious workers contracted through staffing firms – is “corrosive”, “highly problematic”, and “permissive of exploitation”, the employees said. While some may be disgusted with the segregation between the two "tiers" of FTEs doing software development and contractors doing manual labor, the fact that the workforce is starkly separated into two different tiers goes to show just how separate these two segments of the workforce really are. Most of the coverage of Google's contracting emphasizes these points: how separate and unequal the contract and full-time workers are. Now there's an anonymous internet commenter claiming to work at Google insisting that this is not the case - but unwilling to actually specify what team or organization is actually using contract workers for the same functions at FTEs. Is it really "frightening" and "aggressive" that I don't find these anonymous, non-specific allegations more compelling than the writings by people with their real names attached to their claims? 1. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/may/28/a-white-collar-sweatshop-google-assistant-contractors-allege-wage-theft https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/may/28/a-white-c...
sjwhevvvvvsj 3y ago
Literally same tasks, same teams. One person has a Googley badge one has a red badge. One gets various Googley perks, one doesn’t. One is treated with the four respects; one isn’t.
- Ferret7446 3y ago
  You've listed quite a lot of actual differences. I don't think working on the same tasks makes a vendor into an employee.
- Manuel_D 3y ago
  Again, is there anything evidence for this happening besides "people on HN say so"? The New York Times wrote a piece on Google's contractors, and the closest it comes to making this claim is writing that they "sometimes work side by side" with full time employees. That's not even close to saying they're doing the same job, though. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/28/technology/google-temp-workers.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/28/technology/google-temp-wo...
sjwhevvvvvsj 3y ago
[flagged]

heavyset_go 3y ago

If you have information, please get in touch with the workers' legal representatives or the NLRB.