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I like the simple approach. And as a practical matter, just chillin' is safe. But still: [sitting] can get uncomfortable. But when you finish, for some
by w10-1 3y ago
I like the simple approach.
And as a practical matter, just chillin' is safe. But still:
[sitting] can get uncomfortable. But when you finish,
for some strange reason you feel better
Meditation requires some guidance appropriate to the person. Some people are attracted to meditation for the wrong reasons; encouraging them without proper direction can make things go badly for them.
Zen shinkanzen in particular is considered difficult for new students because it is object-less meditation (unlike e.g. Tibetan use of mandala, Christian prayer, or Vispassana body-awareness). Even Zen teachers often start with breath-counting and progress to other heuristics before approaching emptiness.
People are generally robust to thoughts and opinions, even somewhat negative ones, so it seems like the marketplace of ideas and apps is a fine place for that. But I would encourage people writing meditation apps at a minimum to take the same care that any health/diagnostic app would, amplified by the likelihood that someone emotionally unstable might embrace your offering a little too closely...
- calderknight 3y agoI don't get what you're saying. Anyway, I think meditation is best when used for thinking, not for not-thinking.
- maxbond 3y agoI'm curious, best for what? Personally, I don't need any practice to think - but not thinking, that's very challenging! And practicing has been very rewarding.
- calderknight 3y agoBest use of time ethically speaking. Goal is to develop ideas.
- saulpw 3y agoI don't know about you but I have way too many ideas. Some are good, most of them are terrible, and some of them are downright evil. It often takes a quiet mind to see which is which and not talk myself into indulging bad ideas.
- maxbond 3y agoFor me it's not even that I have bad ideas that I find problematic about my thinking (though I do of course), sometimes they just hurt. Kinda like how you might walk around and stub your toe and now you're like, ouch, this is frustrating, and an unreasonably intense pain for such a minor and commonplace injury. In the same way, sometimes I'm minding my business and a painful thought pops into my head and it's like, no thank you, I don't really need that. (A stubbed toe is also a good estimate for how much they hurt.) Sitting and just sort of existing for a little while without thinking (to the extent I'm able to refrain from thinking, which varies) keeps me grounded in the world beyond thought. If you forgot you had an entire body and thought you were just a foot, stubbing your toe would hurt a lot more.
- PawgerZ 3y ago> If you forgot you had an entire body and thought you were just a foot, stubbing your toe would hurt a lot more. Oh, man, that's a good one. Thank you for this insightful nugget to start my morning.
- maxbond 3y agoMay I ask what's unethical about sitting and doing nothing for a little while or meditating without a goal?
- shermantanktop 3y agoSounds like hustle/grind/productivity/self-optimization. Many have gone through that and found they need more balance, and practicing non-thought is a good way (the best? Dunno) of getting that.
- calderknight 3y agoIt's good to think about things carefully for extended periods of time without distraction because it allows you to understand things you would not have understood otherwise.
- broscillator 3y agoThat is basically day dreaming, not really true meditation. It's best to do both for different purposes. It's kind of like biking and weight lifting. You could count both as "exercise" but they serve different purposes and can work in conjunction.
- kelnos 3y agoIsn't the entire point of many types of meditation to not think? There's value in that, at least for some people.
- hombre_fatal 3y agoLet's hear it. How are we going to hurt ourselves by waiting for a timer to tick for a minute or two without the safety blanket of scrolling Twitter?
- maxbond 3y agoTo be fair, they did say: > [A]s a practical matter, just chillin' is safe. I'm an autodidact so this chaffed at me too. But I have met people who've gone in a very strange direction by assembling a syncretic set of ideas plucked from different schools of thought, and ended up with something that was kinda nuts. And operating from this nutty set of principles sometimes lead them to make bad decisions, and made it very difficult to communicate with them. I don't know think having guidance from a teacher is the only way to avoid that, but I think without feedback from others in some way it's really easy to start believing your own bullshit.
- hnfong 3y ago[flagged]
- maxbond 3y agoThey did ask the question in snarky way, and it isn't cool to disrespect people's spiritual/contemplative practice, but in fairness to them it does sound a little silly. Especially if you haven't had any powerful experiences with meditation, I would have had a hard time taking the suggestion seriously a year ago. And I think they were genuinely curious about the answer. We don't know if they're gunnuh use the app or not, either. They're here and asking questions, right? So they're at least curious about it. I have no idea if this is the case for them, but sometimes snark is even a defense mechanism for people who are a little embarrassed to be curious about something. I think telling a story about them like that makes things personal and confrontational in a way that's unhelpful. In order to understand your point, they'd first have to discard any feelings of insult that might arise. Which I at least find taxing. But all that said, I understand why it upset you, and in truth the snark did bother me as well.
- 3y ago
- Kiro 3y ago> Some people are attracted to meditation for the wrong reasons Like what?
- i8comments 3y agoFame and fortune.
- jsn 3y ago> Zen shinkanzen You probably meant to say "shikantaza", I don't think "shinkanzen" is a word.
- fnordian_slip 3y agoShinkansen is the name of the famous Japanese high speed train model :) GP probably got the words mixed up in their mind, or it was autocorrect.
- rpastuszak 3y agoPerhaps Shinkanzen was an old Polish train between Krakow and Zakopane: 120 km in up to 8 hours.
- rpastuszak 3y agoI've been meditating for most of my life, and agree that objectless meditation can be frustrating/scary/emotionally challenging. That's precisely why I say that although I use it for meditation, the goal of the app is just to sit down and do nothing for a minute or two. That's it. FYI I consulted a qualified therapist (CBT, ACT) after building it and they didn't see any issues with my app or the article. She also practices and teaches meditation, so I got lucky I suppose!