4 ms·

While I really admire this, I can't help but think we live in an entirely different era. How do you deal with content moderation? The spammers/native advertis

While I really admire this, I can't help but think we live in an entirely different era. How do you deal with content moderation? The spammers/native advertisers generating useless content to make a few pennies?

fullshark 3y ago
All done with the help of programs calling generative AI. The thrill of the initial stages of the world wide web is never coming back.
- ravenstine 3y ago
  Just make it financially infeasible. Spam and psych warfare require an abundance of inexpensive data channels for millions of sockpuppets and AIs. If people really care about quality web content, they'll have to actually value it by paying for it. That, and content will need to be curated; algorithmic feeds were never very good to begin with, and they will only get worse, thus they should be abandoned. But people think it's an offense to pay $3 a month for X (Musks insufferableness notwithstanding), so slop is what they shall continue to receive.
  - troupo 3y ago
    > Just make it financially infeasible. > But people think it's an offense to pay $3 a month for X $3 a month, or $8 a month, or $15 a month does not stop spam or advertising or bots as long as the profit is larger than that.
    - _chu1 3y ago
      How does spam make money if it isn't advertising anything, and even if it is who's paying for "The free interaction is great, but I love the best casino games on onlineslots.fun, amazing ever and I always love win cold hard cash 100% with no credit card sign up trial. Payday loans online." to be spammed on every old phpBB/SMF forum or article comment section crawled on the web?
      - troupo 3y ago
        > but I love the best casino games on onlineslots.fun > no credit card sign up trial. Payday loans online This is advertisement and scams. As long as there are enough suckers clicking through and leaving money at onlineslots.fun, spam will continue.
    - ravenstine 3y ago
      I didn't say that content should cost $3 to stop spam. My point was clearly that not enough people aren't even willing to pay that. That price was in reference to what people value. If people value fun web content that's not currently being served to them, they should pay something for it. The vast majority of people simply won't, even if they're spending 1/5 their paycheck on Starbucks. If you think I wouldn't pay for HN if I had no other choice, you'd be mistaken. But if no one is willing to spend hundreds a year for web content that is not dominated by spam, ads, bots, etc., then spam, ads, and bots is what they will get.
      - troupo 3y ago
        > But if no one is willing to spend hundreds a year for web content that is not dominated by spam, ads, bots, etc., then spam, ads, and bots is what they will get. Of course no one is willing to do that. For me to spend hundreds a year on any content, that content has to be valuable. If all you can guarantee is that there "won't be bots and spam", that is not enough.
        ravenstine 3y ago
        Like I said, then slop is what they shall get.
  - fullshark 3y ago
    I think we have learned a lot of people don't care about quality web content, that wasn't clear in the initial stages of the internet.
    - hinkley 3y ago
      The lesson of Apple, if there is one, is that you can get at least 70% of your potential margins from 10% of people. The web has become all about pandering. But there are people finding success through cultivating instead of pandering. (I don't know if many Patreon users fit this description, but I'm sure that population is > 0)
singpolyma3 3y ago
> How do you deal with content moderation? On your own static site all content is written only by you. So there's nothing to moderate.
- Moru 3y ago
  The problem is the spammers starting their own static sites with AI-generated content.
  - rimunroe 3y ago
    That's probably a problem for the hosting company, but it's much less of a problem for users who are navigating via direct links between pages or manually curated webrings rather than using some sort of search feature or recommendation algorithm
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
duxup 3y ago
Is neocities appealing to spammers at all?
hinkley 3y ago
Maybe revolutionary things have to be counterculture because if not they don't get a chance to breathe and sort themselves out before the establishment co-opts them. There is likely some corner of the internet which is experiencing some of the things we complain about, but neither you, me, or any of us here feel/are invited. I've been wondering very recently if these social cycles (like fashion, the tech pendulum) are less a cynical play by capitalists and collective amnesia by the young, and more a moral equivalent of molting, where we slough off our old skin and get a chance to grow and be shiny for a bit before everything settles back into normal again. Maybe that's why the other two hominids died out and we remained.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

fullshark 3y ago

All done with the help of programs calling generative AI. The thrill of the initial stages of the world wide web is never coming back.

ravenstine 3y ago
Just make it financially infeasible. Spam and psych warfare require an abundance of inexpensive data channels for millions of sockpuppets and AIs. If people really care about quality web content, they'll have to actually value it by paying for it. That, and content will need to be curated; algorithmic feeds were never very good to begin with, and they will only get worse, thus they should be abandoned. But people think it's an offense to pay $3 a month for X (Musks insufferableness notwithstanding), so slop is what they shall continue to receive.
- troupo 3y ago
  > Just make it financially infeasible. > But people think it's an offense to pay $3 a month for X $3 a month, or $8 a month, or $15 a month does not stop spam or advertising or bots as long as the profit is larger than that.
  - _chu1 3y ago
    How does spam make money if it isn't advertising anything, and even if it is who's paying for "The free interaction is great, but I love the best casino games on onlineslots.fun, amazing ever and I always love win cold hard cash 100% with no credit card sign up trial. Payday loans online." to be spammed on every old phpBB/SMF forum or article comment section crawled on the web?
    - troupo 3y ago
      > but I love the best casino games on onlineslots.fun > no credit card sign up trial. Payday loans online This is advertisement and scams. As long as there are enough suckers clicking through and leaving money at onlineslots.fun, spam will continue.
  - ravenstine 3y ago
    I didn't say that content should cost $3 to stop spam. My point was clearly that not enough people aren't even willing to pay that. That price was in reference to what people value. If people value fun web content that's not currently being served to them, they should pay something for it. The vast majority of people simply won't, even if they're spending 1/5 their paycheck on Starbucks. If you think I wouldn't pay for HN if I had no other choice, you'd be mistaken. But if no one is willing to spend hundreds a year for web content that is not dominated by spam, ads, bots, etc., then spam, ads, and bots is what they will get.
    - troupo 3y ago
      > But if no one is willing to spend hundreds a year for web content that is not dominated by spam, ads, bots, etc., then spam, ads, and bots is what they will get. Of course no one is willing to do that. For me to spend hundreds a year on any content, that content has to be valuable. If all you can guarantee is that there "won't be bots and spam", that is not enough.
      - ravenstine 3y ago
        Like I said, then slop is what they shall get.
- fullshark 3y ago
  I think we have learned a lot of people don't care about quality web content, that wasn't clear in the initial stages of the internet.
  - hinkley 3y ago
    The lesson of Apple, if there is one, is that you can get at least 70% of your potential margins from 10% of people. The web has become all about pandering. But there are people finding success through cultivating instead of pandering. (I don't know if many Patreon users fit this description, but I'm sure that population is > 0)

singpolyma3 3y ago

> How do you deal with content moderation? On your own static site all content is written only by you. So there's nothing to moderate.

Moru 3y ago
The problem is the spammers starting their own static sites with AI-generated content.
- rimunroe 3y ago
  That's probably a problem for the hosting company, but it's much less of a problem for users who are navigating via direct links between pages or manually curated webrings rather than using some sort of search feature or recommendation algorithm
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

duxup 3y ago

Is neocities appealing to spammers at all?

hinkley 3y ago

Maybe revolutionary things have to be counterculture because if not they don't get a chance to breathe and sort themselves out before the establishment co-opts them. There is likely some corner of the internet which is experiencing some of the things we complain about, but neither you, me, or any of us here feel/are invited. I've been wondering very recently if these social cycles (like fashion, the tech pendulum) are less a cynical play by capitalists and collective amnesia by the young, and more a moral equivalent of molting, where we slough off our old skin and get a chance to grow and be shiny for a bit before everything settles back into normal again. Maybe that's why the other two hominids died out and we remained.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]