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Satellite phones have been a thing since the 1980s, and at least a dozen companies are operating some form of commercial 3G/4G/5G satellite services today that
by paxys 3y ago
Satellite phones have been a thing since the 1980s, and at least a dozen companies are operating some form of commercial 3G/4G/5G satellite services today that you can use on your phone or an IoT modem. Apple recently enabled this as well on iPhone 14 (via Globalstar). The article is about the first Starlink satellites with phone service, not the first overall.
- fabiospampinato 3y agoThese work with phones though, not _satellite_ phones.
- paxys 3y agoThe first satellite 5G call between regular phones was made a couple of years ago by AST. There are plenty of companies already in this space.
- 0xfae 3y agoIf you've used old style satellite internet and then used starlink, you'll know that this is not the same technology. Starlink has latency and bandwidth that doesn't even compare to the companies and satellites you are mentioning. This is a tech and nerd forum. Let us be excited about new technology.
- vel0city 3y ago> If you've used old style satellite internet AST's satellite wasn't "old style satellite internet". It was at an altitude of 513km. That's roughly the same altitude as SpaceX's satellites (~550km). AST's satellite was absolutely "new technology", last September. SpaceX was beat for the "first phone service satellites", even for low orbit 5G satellites with unmodified phones. https://ast-science.com/2023/09/19/ast-spacemobile-achieves-space-based-5g-cellular-broadband-connectivity-from-everyday-smartphones-another-historic-world-first/ https://ast-science.com/2023/09/19/ast-spacemobile-achieves-...
- pkaye 3y agoHow many satellites does it have up in space?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Dylan16807 3y agoI wish everything wouldn't be referred to as just "5G". Looks like they used 800MHz, so basically the longest range cell phone bands. Which is about as expected, none of that super-fragile millimeter wave stuff. SpaceX is using 1900MHz, which will make a difference but probably not a huge difference.
- wmf 3y ago5G NR can run on any band; it's not specific to mmwave.
- Dylan16807 3y agoI know. But 90% of articles call specific arbitrary subsets "5G" and it gets annoying to have the details skipped. By 5G does an article mean the incremental improvements, the expansion in mid-range frequencies, or the mmwave stuff? It's a crapshoot. Let alone more subtle but important information like whether it's 5G in both directions.
- belltaco 3y ago
- paxys 3y ago5G is "old style satellite internet" how?
- JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago> > This is a tech and nerd forum. Let us be excited about new technology. It's the same old re-inventing the wheel with Musk cult of personality marketing slapped on top of it. New thing of the 2020s is the mRNA vaccine which solved a big problem, people took it and then endlessly bitched about it while mirin and salivating at the Tesla cybertruck or the 300k Tesla Roadster which will never enter into production. It doesn't pay to build stuff and innovate nowadays, it's more about conning people into thinking that some stuff will be built sometime in the future™ and it will be revolutionary, and then move the goalposts perpetually into the future™
- mardifoufs 3y agoAre you saying SpaceX isn't innovating? This has nothing to do with musk by the way, one can say that SpaceX is impressive and innovative while also disliking musk.
- xeromal 3y agoEverything requires a political stance now.
- JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago> > Are you saying SpaceX isn't innovating? Innovation serves as a means to an end, like for example mRNA vaccines solved a big problem like COVID. SpaceX doesn't solve any problem, 90% of the global population lives in urban areas, they connect to the internet using cell towers propagating 3/4/5G and good old fiber or fiber+copper The remaining 10% is too poor so they cannot afford it, and they are also unskilled so if they want a shot a decent life they'd have to move to cities too where they can start as manual laborers and slowly climb the social ladder, they'd have to do it either independently or thanks to help from NGOs, UNICEF, UN, Doctors without borders etc. To put it bluntly fast internet is the last of their necessities. SpaceX is textbook SV self dealing and wealth isolation where a bunch of assholes (led by the Chief Asshole of SV) who want to play with rockets and get paid for it , so they try to retroactively find a pitch to sell to VCs and asset managers to finance their play time and they do so by pitching them stuff like: "Internet on your 10M sailboat" or "Internet on your 2M Luxury RV" And of course they get billions because VCs are also loaded and so they painted themselves so much in the corner with their wealth that the only thing that makes them enthusiastic is thin marginal improvement to trophy assets like a 10M sailboat or a 2M luxury RV, stuff that is totally uncorrelated with what regular consumers want or what the economy at large needs.
- konschubert 3y agoCool, if this is a solved problem, then why can’t I make a satellite 5G call with my phone right now?
- modeless 3y ago... as a tech demo, with a single satellite in orbit, and it was actually less than a year ago. They haven't yet launched any more satellites and neither has anyone else. A commercial service will require dozens up to thousands of satellites. SpaceX just multiplied the number of satellites capable of this in orbit by 7. Why is everyone trying so hard to shit on this? It's going to be awesome when we have truly global commercial cellular coverage that works with unmodified existing phones. SpaceX is almost certainly going to be the first to get there, but I hope many competitors get there soon after.
- imbusy111 3y ago> Why is everyone trying so hard to shit on this? I think it's obvious, but I'll explain anyway, cause I have little better to do at the moment: 1) cause the headline is sensationalist and isn't true, 2) above is multiplied by dislike for Musk, cause SpaceX is positioned as Musk & pals.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y agoThat's the thing that wasn't clear to me. Do these work with any old 5G phone, or does it need special hardware? E.g. the satellite functionality in the latest iPhones is essentially "emergency only", and it requires a bit of a song and dance to make sure you have visible sky and a direct line of sight to the satellite. The article seems to imply this would be different, and would (eventually) feel just like expanded cell coverage. So curious how this would work.
- cloudwalking 3y agoAllegedly it's LTE and higher bandwidth than the Apple solution, although still relatively low bandwidth. Enough to text and call but not browse. LTE, text only, with voice and browsing coming supposedly in 2025 https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/01/spacex-launches-first-starlink-satellites-that-will-work-with-t-mobile-phones/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/01/spacex-launches-...
- summarity 3y agoBeing able to call is still a major improvement for small handhelds. My current Iridium device (in reach 2) usually still takes minutes to send messages even under a clear sky (and does so out of order).
- esprehn 3y agoOne of the most notable being the Iridium network: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridium_satellite_constellation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridium_satellite_constellat... Lots of interesting stories from their time (flares, collisions, market issues). It wasn't regular cell though, so maybe Starlink will do better.
- _xerces_ 3y agoWho else allows you to use an unmodified (hardware or firmware) cell phone? Certainly not Iridium. You have to have a specific iPhone 14 that was updated to support Globalstar and using it is awkward. I can't use an old iPhone or my Samsung phone. Other players have had single test satellites that again required a modified phone.
- paxys 3y agoOld iPhones or Samsung phones (aka without some specific 5G radios) aren't going to be able to use this either.
- panick21_ 3y agoTheir are other compnies in this space that have done the same. But non are commercially operational. AST and SpaceX are the leaders in this space as far as I know.
- NovemberWhiskey 3y agoEarlier even than that, INMARSAT goes back to the 1970s.
- ianburrell 3y agoiPhone with Globalstar are not satellite phones. They are phones with satellite. They are only text messengers similar to the SPOT and Iridium ones. Starlink is starting with text but planning on doing voice and slow data. There is a big jump from going from device that have to pay for and pay subscription to working with every iPhone for free. Nobody knows if partner providers will charge extra for service or not but it should be free.
- ImPostingOnHN 3y agoWill it be free, though? I think we can assume for now it won't be. Will it work with every iPhone? I don't think it will. So, not that big of a jump.
- ianburrell 3y agoWhich "it" are you talking about? Apple added Globalstar antenna in iPhone 14 so it works with any newer iPhone. If you are talking about Starlink Direct-to-Cell, it will work with any phone with 5G and 1900 MHz band. For Starlink Direct-to-cell, they are partnering with mobile providers, like T-Mobile in the US. I can't find it, but my understanding is that it will be included in the service. It will be incentive for people to use T-Mobile.
- ImPostingOnHN 3y agoBased on some googling, the latest iphone is 15, so that means it works on 2/15ths of iphones, or an even smaller fraction if you count all the variants apple has released. If we're looking at non-iphones, the fraction likely gets even worse. Remember 3g was only shut down a couple years ago. And this requires 5g to work? As in 2 entire generations newer? But yeah, I also haven't found any confirmation it would be free for T-Mobile customers (who have the right phones), so I think it's safe to assume it won't be until we get that. It'd be cool if true, though!
- mlindner 3y agoiPhone with Globalstar is absolutely a satellite phone. They've added a satellite phone to the regular cell phone. That's different than what Starlink is doing which is broadcasting a regular cell phone signal.
- why_at 3y agoIt's interesting how the phrasing in the headline leads to different readings of its meaning. I read it as "SpaceX launches [their] first phone service satellites" which is how I think the author meant it. The first sentence clarifies: >SpaceX launched a rocket on Tuesday carrying the first set of Starlink satellites that can beam signals directly to smartphones from space. I don't think this was intentionally deceptive. If the headline said "North Korea launches first rocket" it would be clear that it meant North Korea's first rocket, not the first rocket ever I can see how this could be confusing though if you're not familiar with the existence of other satellite phones, and maybe a journalist should be held to high standards for clarity when writing headlines.
- mr_toad 3y agoPhone satellites not satellite phones. They’re basically orbiting cellphone towers.
- mlindner 3y agoApple's thing is basically a satellite phone. It's a completely different modem and protocol from what's used to contact cell phone towers. They just added satellite phone functionality to a normal phone.