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But instead of spending the money on a house big enough to host those dinner parties, you could host them at a fancy restaurant, with better food and the abilit

by Joeri 3y ago

But instead of spending the money on a house big enough to host those dinner parties, you could host them at a fancy restaurant, with better food and the ability to spend the entire evening with the guests instead of in the kitchen. And for hosting occasional guests an extra bedroom, plenty of solutions exist for creating temporary sleeping space in the living room, while leaving your own bedroom to the guests. A small inconvenience to pay to save out a whole bedroom to pay for and maintain. There’s also the option of going on vacation together, which can be a really fun way to spend the holidays. Plenty of landscaping places will deliver to the home, much more convenient, and cheaper overall when you can downsize your vehicle of choice. I ended up making life choices that let me not have a car at all, and I spend that money on traveling instead. My point is: I find life to be more comfortable when treating edge cases like edge cases, and finding an appropriate solution. I see so many people maxing out their house and car within their budget, and then talking about but never doing things they really want to, like that far away vacation, or that expensive hobby. I never quite understand why.

quickthrower2 3y ago
There is another thing at play with maxing out on your house, which is that in many places it is a damn investment (unfortunately) and the primary residence usually has tax-free gains, and things like being not means tested for certain benefits. So maxing out on the house can perversely let you do that travel a few years down the road. It's not great, but that's the system. Housing might be a long term ponzi but we'll see I guess :-). As long as they keep devaluing currency it is not a bad bet. Especially in a metro area.
- votepaunchy 3y ago
  > the primary residence usually has tax-free gains Property taxes are worse than capital gains in that the whole value of the property is taxed each year, compounding, rather than the increase in value when sold.
rich_sasha 3y ago
> My point is: I find life to be more comfortable when treating edge cases like edge cases, and finding an appropriate solution And that's fair enough, but I find the tyranny of "it works for me so you're doing it wrong" very real. In many areas, but in particular with electric car range discussions.
- Shacklz 3y ago
  > but I find the tyranny of "it works for me so you're doing it wrong" very real One could also talk about the tyranny of people living their freedom of personal choice to the maximum. "My solution works for me but will never scale to work for the entire humanity as we're simply too many on this planet for that and also totally screws the environment for future generations, but hey, it works for me!"
  - vladvasiliu 3y ago
    It doesn't have to be a static situation. Right now people have an issue with the edge cases of EV range. That doesn't mean they wouldn't ever replace their ICE car with an EV if the range story were better (meaning the range of the vehicle itself as well as the charging story). I'm in a similar situation. My motorbike does, most of the year, ~50 km trips to go see my parents for the weekend (I take the metro or a bicycle for my commute needs). It could be electric, no problem. But several weeks a year, sometimes on end, I'll go ride in the mountains where current electrical motorbikes would be useless. It's way cheaper for me to own my current motorbike (which I own outright) than to sell it and rent for my trips in addition to buying an electric one. If an electric motorbike could have the same range as mine and the charging infrastructure in the back roads were useful, I could see myself riding around on an electric bike. It would be debatable whether buying a new motorbike when mine is still in perfect working condition would actually be better for the environment, but I'd say that's another question.
    - XorNot 3y ago
      Also more importantly, the "edge case" argument is just another variant of "if I yell at people, the problem would go away". Rate of success for social problems: 0 (pretty questionable on personal ones too). EV range concerns have an obvious solution: build more EV fast charging stations and guarantee cross-compatibility. Standardize the billing system (the EU strategy of "figure it out or we'll do it for you" would be a good one to pull on the automakers here). The solution is not ever going to be another round of people posting caustic hot takes on social media trying to shame people.
ekianjo 3y ago
> you could host them at a fancy restaurant, with better food and the ability to spend the entire evening with the guests instead of in the kitchen. Not everyone has a five star restaurant down the street.
- sgu999 3y ago
  Are you that much of a good cook? ;D
  - calf 3y ago
    The point is a restaurant party would have to taste a lot better than home cooked food to be equivalent in value. And I am a good cook, when the example above was given I was thinking it would have to be dinner somewhere like Chez Panisse for a party of 10. And even then it wouldn't be the same as a party at home--maybe SV tech people don't value this, but most cultures still value the social connection of cooking for ourselves.
  - ExoticPearTree 3y ago
    It's not about being a good cook, it's about the joy of cooking and sharing a meal with friends. And the joy of having friends stay overnight and having a coffee together in the morning.
- coldtea 3y ago
  Yes, because it has to be "five star" and it has to be "down the street".
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- jmspring 3y ago
  Also the food at “fancy restaurants” can be quite subjective.
sgu999 3y ago
[flagged]
- vasco 3y ago
  > Still, these replies show how spoiled, individualistic and entitled people are. Are you living in a cave? Do you have children? Do you own a car? Do you fly anywhere? Are you sure your house has no glass walls before you throw rocks?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - sgu999 3y ago
    > Are you sure your house has no glass walls before you throw rocks? I didn't throw a rock, I pointed out a flaw. And it is safe for my wellbeing to do so without being perfect, because I'm aware of my own.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - ExoticPearTree 3y ago
      > Still, these replies show how spoiled, individualistic and entitled people are. There is no flaw or entitlement doing whatever makes you happy. And there's nothing individualistic about not liking public transport (if you have access to it).
  - lagadu 3y ago
    The whole glass ceilings concept is absurd: just because someone's situation isn't perfect doesn't mean we don't all benefit from pointing out flaws in a given system.
- StressedDev 3y ago
  In the suburban US, nothing is 15km away. All of the stores you typically go to are 0-5 miles way (grocery store, gas station, pharmacy, doctor, etc.). It is a very convenient place to live and people who want a to live in a house love suburbia because it is affordable, safe, and in general a nice place to live. People living in rural America have to drive a lot farther than suburbanites. Also, note that people who prefer to not own a car can choose to live in places with good public transit (mostly big cities like Chicago, New York, Washington DC, Boston, Philidelphia, etc.).
vasco 3y ago
I think nobody in my country would say going out to eat is better than eating at home. Home cooked meals are way better. This is just a list of your personal preferences disguised as the right way to do things. If you want a small house and flying around to vacations, you can do it without looking down on who decides for another trade-off.
- dayjaby 3y ago
  100% agree with home cooked meals. You have the liberty of choosing among 100000 ingredients. No restaurant offers that variety. And for the "dining room just for parties" argument from above: it is actually possible to invite your neighbours, your friends, your colleagues, ... to dinner more than once a year. I almost never had people turn down such an invitation.
  - ben_w 3y ago
    > No restaurant offers that variety. No single restaurant. But in a city like mine, there are countless restaurants that offer meals I have neither the knowledge nor equipment to prepare. It may not be 100,000 ingredients… but neither are the shops I'd buy the ingredients from.
  - scaryclam 3y ago
    Heck, I have a kid in my life who has a severe peanut allergy. Going out to eat is restrictive as we can't go to some restaurants, so cooking at home is way easier on many occasions. We also like to sit an eat together "just because", so like you point out, a dining room can be used day-to-day, not just for parties (though it's also great for those).
  - Dylan16807 3y ago
    > it is actually possible to invite your neighbours, your friends, your colleagues, ... to dinner more than once a year Of course it's possible. But that kind of thinking is often the problem. Plan based on what you'll actually do.
    - 3y ago
LaGrange 3y ago
> But instead of spending the money on a house big enough to host those dinner parties ROFL no fancy restaurant will let me suspend a friend off the ceiling. Honestly most won’t be happy with board games. Also, a home cooked meal is better - not because of the quality, but _because it’s home cooked_. And fyi cooking is a communal activity. The friends are in the kitchen then move with me to dining. Not to mention I’m a solitary weirdo and I host people at least twice a month. Same with the last two generations of my family. The only time it was as bad as you describe (and “once per two years” is really bad) was when I was cripplingly depressed. Edit: also, having a spare bedroom and a living room big enough to host even a dozen is hardly maxing out anything.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  > ROFL no fancy restaurant will let me suspend a friend off the ceiling I like your idea of parties :3 Shibari?
  - LaGrange 3y ago
    I wouldn't focus too much on it. Just so many activities that rely on people feeling comfortable, in a familiar, intimate atmosphere. You can't spoof that with a restaurant or an AirBNB. So even if the place would allow it, people would rarely be as comfortable.
    - wkat4242 3y ago
      Oh ok, I'm one of those people who do have such parties lol (though I'm normally the suspendee). Funnily enough I have had parties outside with such aspects, there are actually venues that specialise in such things. Friends regular rent them out. Usually combined with finger food only though.
- epolanski 3y ago
  Let's buy a bigger house so I can suspend people in the house.
  - 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Terr_ 3y ago
> But instead of spending the money on a house big enough to host those dinner parties, you could host them at a fancy restaurant That may be plausible for uncorrelated birthday events, but what about stuff like Thanksgiving? Suddenly the usual third-party hosting capacity just isn't available anymore, and you can't simply merge the houses of all participants.
- ImHereToVote 3y ago
  Yeah, the whole argument boils down to. "Stop owning things and being unhappy". "Start owning nothing and be happy". No thanks rent seeker.
tomcam 3y ago
> But instead of spending the money on a house big enough to host those dinner parties, you could host them at a fancy restaurant I feel bad for you
brandonmenc 3y ago
> you could host them at a fancy restaurant That’s great until it’s like, Christmas or Thanksgiving or New Years, and everyone else in town also wants to host a party.
- chasd00 3y ago
  or you and your friends have kids and they want to run around and play while the grownups are talking...
leoedin 3y ago
> But instead of spending the money on a house big enough to host those dinner parties, you could host them at a fancy restaurant, with better food and the ability to spend the entire evening with the guests instead of in the kitchen. Ultimately people do things they enjoy. People enjoy different things. I love hosting groups of people at home. Yes, it's hard work, but it's satisfying. The meal planning, excitement of preparing the house, cooking, having a big party at home - I enjoy almost all of it. Having a party at a restaurant is a totally different set of activities - it needs longer term organisation to book a date, work out exact numbers, maybe pay a deposit. When the meal's over, everyone goes home. Doing it with kids is much harder. There's a different set of societal expectations over payment (people are much less comfortable being paid for in a restaurant than eating food you've provided). These are different sets of activities. Some people enjoy doing one set more. That's OK. From my point of view - I'm finally in the position in the last few years where I can host large parties at home, and I'm really happy about it. To me it's worth the cost.
- kolinko 3y ago
  This. Also, in restaurants there is usually less to do - you either sit and eat/drink, or stand. Home parties have more activities - people can cook their own food, browse books, play with other things. They also last longer, and in the end it can be just a few last people chilling on a couch discussing life and stuff in general - can't have that in a restaurant. (also, nice to find another party organiser!)
  - smacky 3y ago
    But not really this. Many other parts of the world have much rarer house parties and much more done in restaurants with private rooms, etc being easy. Cultural norms and etiquette largely determines what we can enjoy and what is available, we aren't really following our own personal preferences most of the time. In the case of many of these things there's an early outlay of a lot of money to then pretend the incremental costs is negligible where something with less actual costs might be a lot more enjoyable but is harder to disguise.
konschubert 3y ago
Sometimes creating sunk cost can increase the likelihood of things happening. If I am a guest, I would rather use the guest room than a hotel room paid for by my host. The latter feels like I am free-riding, the first doesn't - even though the cost for a guest room is much bigger, it's already committed to. Also, staying at somebody's place is a very different experience than staying in the hotel down the road. With the hotel, you will leave at a reasonable time in the evening. With the guest room, you may end up staying up all night.
- arghwhat 3y ago
  > Sometimes creating sunk cost can increase the likelihood of things happening. If I buy a trailer I never needed, it does increase the chances of me using a trailer on a given occasion. It does not, however, mean that I used a trailer any less than I wanted to before, and if I hadn't sunk that cost I'd have more money for more useful things. In your case, inviting for parties or going to restaurants more often and having more luxurious ones. If you want to see your friends, don't buy stuff and hope they'll come use it. Invite them. > If I am a guest, I would rather use the guest room than a hotel room paid for by my host. If it's just one guest, they can sleep on the couch. Don't need spare bedrooms for that. > With the hotel, you will leave at a reasonable time in the evening. With the guest room, you may end up staying up all night. Not really. Leave late, stay up all night, whatever. The only thing they might care for is the checkout time if the hotel is expensive.
  - jrumbut 3y ago
    > If it's just one guest, they can sleep on the couch. This works until your friends start getting married, start having back problems, or just want a little privacy while they sleep.
    - arghwhat 3y ago
      So they want to sleep at your place but are not comfortable having you around? And if they have back pain they can't sleep on just any mattress either, as it might be the wrong hardness for them. And you might have another friend staying over so now you need two guest bedrooms for them both to have privacy, and both of which need fancy specific mattresses, ah and what if it's one of those couples that don't sleep in the same bed so... Having an entirely unused room to cater to a very specific situation in which someone has to sleep in your house but also wants a hotel experience with a particular choice of mattress is a waste of effort. Guest bedroom by themselves is quite an American luxury thing. They're not at all a thing in Scandinavia unless you live in a mansion, and even then it would be weird waste of rooms to make spare bedrooms. Friends sleep on couches or fold-out beds if they need to sleep over.
RangerScience 3y ago
I mean, you're not wrong in general - if someone if sacrificing something they actually want (travel vacay) for something they only want the story of (hosting dinner parties) - then yeah. But in specific, goddamn there's so many differences between hosting a dinner party at home vs at a restaurant, or getting someone to visit and putting them up in a room vs a hotel. Totes agree about trucks tho.
ExoticPearTree 3y ago
For casual food, I prefer to have people over. And I don't mind the preparation time and the hassle of cleaning up afterwards. Restaurants are very impersonal and don't have the same vibe as a home cooked meal. Same with landscaping and other hobbies. The joy they bring you cannot be replaced by getting it done by someone else. And I think the cost of having a truck versus a sedan is marginal, especially in the US where the roads are wider and parking spaces can accommodate trucks without any issues.
omgJustTest 3y ago
>But instead of spending the money on a house big enough to host those dinner parties, you could host them at a fancy restaurant, with better food and the ability to spend the entire evening with the guests instead of in the kitchen. Just because an alternative exists now, does not mean it will in the future and also does not mean it is equivalent. >Plenty of landscaping places will deliver to the home, much more convenient, and cheaper overall when you can downsize your vehicle of choice. I ended up making life choices that let me not have a car at all, and I spend that money on traveling instead. Congrats on choices that make you happy. Other people do have cars though, which enable your lifestyle and your landscapers probably do not have an electric or a car manufactured in the last 15years.
numpad0 3y ago
> But instead of spending the money You just can't. You can deceive yourself all you want and skip all life events this way, but ultimately spending money cannot be substituted by not spending money and if attempted will cast long shadows onto your life if it going to exist at all. It's an ultimate bean counting, going over a same bag that never grows. > A small inconvenience to pay to save This thinking is literally penny wise and pound foolish. Taken me way too long to realize.
luzojeda 3y ago
What if people enjoy their privacy at homes? Leave them be...
itsoktocry 3y ago
>But instead of spending the money on a house big enough to host those dinner parties, you could host them at a fancy restaurant, with better food and the ability to spend the entire evening with the guests instead of in the kitchen. Maybe we can skip it all and send them a gift card from Uber Eats? If you think eating at a fancy restaurant is a substitute for being surround by family while you cook a huge dinner in a large, cozy home then I feel bad for you. >I find life to be more comfortable when treating edge cases like edge cases, and finding an appropriate solution. I bet if we looked at your life, "car" and "house" are compromises you are willing to make, "edge cases", but there are other things in there that you are not. Can I ask why you are so concerned about policing how other people want to spend their time and money?
iamthepieman 3y ago
I've done the admittedly rough cost benefit analysis and for me it doesn't work out. There's hidden edge cases in each of these and other cases. I did optimize in other ways to make up for the inefficient choices though. I have a huge house but live in a low CoL area where it costs the same as a condo in a high CoL place. I drive a big passenger van but live in a small town where I can walk to the grocery store, gym, and library. So you can mitigate in more ways than your suggesting.
trimistermota 3y ago
> But instead of spending the money on a house big enough to host those dinner parties, you could host them at a fancy restaurant, with better food and the ability to spend the entire evening with the guests instead of in the kitchen. I find it staggering that you would feel those are the same experiences. I feel there's a difference in what you consider to be a party and what people consider to be a party.
mattbrewsbytes 3y ago
Spontaneity is the reason. In my mind if I have a truck (I used to) I could go to the big box store any day I want and pick up nearly anything in that store and take it home to do something. Its not hard to think ahead but if you feel the urge to redo your flower beds and you have a truck (or a van too) you can do it when the urge strikes and not have to be limited to only landscape places that deliver or having to rent a truck and then return it, etc. Its spontaneity and freedom to do what you want when you want. Same goes for the OP story about EV's. The mental freedom of being able to drive across the country any time someone chooses is liberating vs. only being able to go 200 miles and having to plan out charging stations and wattages/volts/whatever.
_ea1k 3y ago
Sure, but that restaurant is likely expensive and the homeowner won't get the $$ back years later when he sells his house. Perpetual home price increases leads buyers into an "investing mindset". I don't particularly like it, but it is an easy one to fall into. This is doubly true since realtors make their money by encouraging it.
ochoseis 3y ago
I also used to think like this, but ultimately it reduces your spontaneity / flexibility / optionality. What if you want to host a gathering last minute, but it’s a busy time for restaurants? What if you sold your car because your city has a car share, and last minute you want to get out of town for the holiday (just like everyone else)? You obviously shouldn’t pay to cover every edge case, but if you can it’s worth paying for the ones you value.
AlgorithmicTime 3y ago
[dead]
radiator 3y ago
> But instead of spending the money on a house big enough to host those dinner parties, you could host them at a fancy restaurant, with better food. This is borderline infuriating. To suggest that a day with the extended family, which might include people from three different generations, at home could ever be replaced with two hours at a restaurant.
- lagadu 3y ago
  > two hours at a restaurant. I know there are significant cultural differences at stake here but if your party with family/friends at a restaurant only takes two hours, you're doing it wrong.
  - strix_varius 3y ago
    If you spend more than two hours with a big group at a restaurant, the entire staff hates you.
thsksbd 3y ago
"But instead of spending the money on a house big enough to host those dinner parties, you could host them at a fancy restaurant, with better food and the ability to spend the entire evening with the guests instead of in the kitchen." That just not true. Restaurant quality has plummeted and it's easy to out cook them. Go to your average fancy wedding and the food is mediocre (this summer I went to a wedding in Canada's fanciest hotel. Same "fancy" fare you get anywhere else). By the time your guests arrive, if you're spending your time in the kitchen instead of entertaining, you've messed up. Also, you're telling OP how to live his life. You'd hate it if someone told you how to live yours. "And for hosting occasional guests an extra bedroom, plenty of solutions exist for creating temporary sleeping space in the living room, while leaving your own bedroom to the guests. A small inconvenience to pay to save out a whole bedroom to pay for and maintain. There’s also the option of going on vacation together, which can be a really fun way to spend the holidays." The carbon cost of vacations is not zero. Close the ducts to the extra room and maintaining it is essentially free. But again, you're telling OP how to live. You do your vacations with friends, I'll invite my in-laws to stay with me for a year. "Plenty of landscaping places will deliver to the home, much more convenient, and cheaper overall when you can downsize your vehicle of choice. I ended up making life choices that let me not have a car at all, and I spend that money on traveling instead." And the detritus afterwards? Since I don't have a truck Ive been slowly cleaning my yard one green bin a week at a time since moving in two years ago. With a pickup I could have finished in two weekends. Your travel is not environmentally sound at all. Sure, a plane gets 100 mpgp, if its full, but the distances are massive and its way worse overall. But that's your life, you can choose to do that if you want. I care too much for the environment to air travel much (and, as a "third culture kid" -yuck- I actually do have friends and family scattered through out the world). "My point is: I find life to be more comfortable when treating edge cases like edge cases, and finding an appropriate solution. I see so many people maxing out their house and car within their budget, and then talking about but never doing things they really want to, like that far away vacation, or that expensive hobby. I never quite understand why." You don't have to understand. Ppl like to bitch. They would have even if their choices were different. That is a message of basically all religions throughout time - be content with your now.

by Joeri 3y ago

quickthrower2 3y ago

There is another thing at play with maxing out on your house, which is that in many places it is a damn investment (unfortunately) and the primary residence usually has tax-free gains, and things like being not means tested for certain benefits. So maxing out on the house can perversely let you do that travel a few years down the road. It's not great, but that's the system. Housing might be a long term ponzi but we'll see I guess :-). As long as they keep devaluing currency it is not a bad bet. Especially in a metro area.

votepaunchy 3y ago
> the primary residence usually has tax-free gains Property taxes are worse than capital gains in that the whole value of the property is taxed each year, compounding, rather than the increase in value when sold.

rich_sasha 3y ago

> My point is: I find life to be more comfortable when treating edge cases like edge cases, and finding an appropriate solution And that's fair enough, but I find the tyranny of "it works for me so you're doing it wrong" very real. In many areas, but in particular with electric car range discussions.

Shacklz 3y ago
> but I find the tyranny of "it works for me so you're doing it wrong" very real One could also talk about the tyranny of people living their freedom of personal choice to the maximum. "My solution works for me but will never scale to work for the entire humanity as we're simply too many on this planet for that and also totally screws the environment for future generations, but hey, it works for me!"
- vladvasiliu 3y ago
  It doesn't have to be a static situation. Right now people have an issue with the edge cases of EV range. That doesn't mean they wouldn't ever replace their ICE car with an EV if the range story were better (meaning the range of the vehicle itself as well as the charging story). I'm in a similar situation. My motorbike does, most of the year, ~50 km trips to go see my parents for the weekend (I take the metro or a bicycle for my commute needs). It could be electric, no problem. But several weeks a year, sometimes on end, I'll go ride in the mountains where current electrical motorbikes would be useless. It's way cheaper for me to own my current motorbike (which I own outright) than to sell it and rent for my trips in addition to buying an electric one. If an electric motorbike could have the same range as mine and the charging infrastructure in the back roads were useful, I could see myself riding around on an electric bike. It would be debatable whether buying a new motorbike when mine is still in perfect working condition would actually be better for the environment, but I'd say that's another question.
  - XorNot 3y ago
    Also more importantly, the "edge case" argument is just another variant of "if I yell at people, the problem would go away". Rate of success for social problems: 0 (pretty questionable on personal ones too). EV range concerns have an obvious solution: build more EV fast charging stations and guarantee cross-compatibility. Standardize the billing system (the EU strategy of "figure it out or we'll do it for you" would be a good one to pull on the automakers here). The solution is not ever going to be another round of people posting caustic hot takes on social media trying to shame people.

ekianjo 3y ago

> you could host them at a fancy restaurant, with better food and the ability to spend the entire evening with the guests instead of in the kitchen. Not everyone has a five star restaurant down the street.

sgu999 3y ago
Are you that much of a good cook? ;D
- calf 3y ago
  The point is a restaurant party would have to taste a lot better than home cooked food to be equivalent in value. And I am a good cook, when the example above was given I was thinking it would have to be dinner somewhere like Chez Panisse for a party of 10. And even then it wouldn't be the same as a party at home--maybe SV tech people don't value this, but most cultures still value the social connection of cooking for ourselves.
- ExoticPearTree 3y ago
  It's not about being a good cook, it's about the joy of cooking and sharing a meal with friends. And the joy of having friends stay overnight and having a coffee together in the morning.
coldtea 3y ago
Yes, because it has to be "five star" and it has to be "down the street".
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
jmspring 3y ago
Also the food at “fancy restaurants” can be quite subjective.

sgu999 3y ago

[flagged]

vasco 3y ago
> Still, these replies show how spoiled, individualistic and entitled people are. Are you living in a cave? Do you have children? Do you own a car? Do you fly anywhere? Are you sure your house has no glass walls before you throw rocks?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- sgu999 3y ago
  > Are you sure your house has no glass walls before you throw rocks? I didn't throw a rock, I pointed out a flaw. And it is safe for my wellbeing to do so without being perfect, because I'm aware of my own.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - ExoticPearTree 3y ago
    > Still, these replies show how spoiled, individualistic and entitled people are. There is no flaw or entitlement doing whatever makes you happy. And there's nothing individualistic about not liking public transport (if you have access to it).
- lagadu 3y ago
  The whole glass ceilings concept is absurd: just because someone's situation isn't perfect doesn't mean we don't all benefit from pointing out flaws in a given system.
StressedDev 3y ago
In the suburban US, nothing is 15km away. All of the stores you typically go to are 0-5 miles way (grocery store, gas station, pharmacy, doctor, etc.). It is a very convenient place to live and people who want a to live in a house love suburbia because it is affordable, safe, and in general a nice place to live. People living in rural America have to drive a lot farther than suburbanites. Also, note that people who prefer to not own a car can choose to live in places with good public transit (mostly big cities like Chicago, New York, Washington DC, Boston, Philidelphia, etc.).

vasco 3y ago

I think nobody in my country would say going out to eat is better than eating at home. Home cooked meals are way better. This is just a list of your personal preferences disguised as the right way to do things. If you want a small house and flying around to vacations, you can do it without looking down on who decides for another trade-off.

dayjaby 3y ago
100% agree with home cooked meals. You have the liberty of choosing among 100000 ingredients. No restaurant offers that variety. And for the "dining room just for parties" argument from above: it is actually possible to invite your neighbours, your friends, your colleagues, ... to dinner more than once a year. I almost never had people turn down such an invitation.
- ben_w 3y ago
  > No restaurant offers that variety. No single restaurant. But in a city like mine, there are countless restaurants that offer meals I have neither the knowledge nor equipment to prepare. It may not be 100,000 ingredients… but neither are the shops I'd buy the ingredients from.
- scaryclam 3y ago
  Heck, I have a kid in my life who has a severe peanut allergy. Going out to eat is restrictive as we can't go to some restaurants, so cooking at home is way easier on many occasions. We also like to sit an eat together "just because", so like you point out, a dining room can be used day-to-day, not just for parties (though it's also great for those).
- Dylan16807 3y ago
  > it is actually possible to invite your neighbours, your friends, your colleagues, ... to dinner more than once a year Of course it's possible. But that kind of thinking is often the problem. Plan based on what you'll actually do.
  - 3y ago

LaGrange 3y ago

> But instead of spending the money on a house big enough to host those dinner parties ROFL no fancy restaurant will let me suspend a friend off the ceiling. Honestly most won’t be happy with board games. Also, a home cooked meal is better - not because of the quality, but _because it’s home cooked_. And fyi cooking is a communal activity. The friends are in the kitchen then move with me to dining. Not to mention I’m a solitary weirdo and I host people at least twice a month. Same with the last two generations of my family. The only time it was as bad as you describe (and “once per two years” is really bad) was when I was cripplingly depressed. Edit: also, having a spare bedroom and a living room big enough to host even a dozen is hardly maxing out anything.

wkat4242 3y ago
> ROFL no fancy restaurant will let me suspend a friend off the ceiling I like your idea of parties :3 Shibari?
- LaGrange 3y ago
  I wouldn't focus too much on it. Just so many activities that rely on people feeling comfortable, in a familiar, intimate atmosphere. You can't spoof that with a restaurant or an AirBNB. So even if the place would allow it, people would rarely be as comfortable.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    Oh ok, I'm one of those people who do have such parties lol (though I'm normally the suspendee). Funnily enough I have had parties outside with such aspects, there are actually venues that specialise in such things. Friends regular rent them out. Usually combined with finger food only though.
epolanski 3y ago
Let's buy a bigger house so I can suspend people in the house.
- 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

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Terr_ 3y ago

> But instead of spending the money on a house big enough to host those dinner parties, you could host them at a fancy restaurant That may be plausible for uncorrelated birthday events, but what about stuff like Thanksgiving? Suddenly the usual third-party hosting capacity just isn't available anymore, and you can't simply merge the houses of all participants.

ImHereToVote 3y ago
Yeah, the whole argument boils down to. "Stop owning things and being unhappy". "Start owning nothing and be happy". No thanks rent seeker.

tomcam 3y ago

> But instead of spending the money on a house big enough to host those dinner parties, you could host them at a fancy restaurant I feel bad for you

brandonmenc 3y ago

> you could host them at a fancy restaurant That’s great until it’s like, Christmas or Thanksgiving or New Years, and everyone else in town also wants to host a party.

chasd00 3y ago
or you and your friends have kids and they want to run around and play while the grownups are talking...

leoedin 3y ago

> But instead of spending the money on a house big enough to host those dinner parties, you could host them at a fancy restaurant, with better food and the ability to spend the entire evening with the guests instead of in the kitchen. Ultimately people do things they enjoy. People enjoy different things. I love hosting groups of people at home. Yes, it's hard work, but it's satisfying. The meal planning, excitement of preparing the house, cooking, having a big party at home - I enjoy almost all of it. Having a party at a restaurant is a totally different set of activities - it needs longer term organisation to book a date, work out exact numbers, maybe pay a deposit. When the meal's over, everyone goes home. Doing it with kids is much harder. There's a different set of societal expectations over payment (people are much less comfortable being paid for in a restaurant than eating food you've provided). These are different sets of activities. Some people enjoy doing one set more. That's OK. From my point of view - I'm finally in the position in the last few years where I can host large parties at home, and I'm really happy about it. To me it's worth the cost.

kolinko 3y ago
This. Also, in restaurants there is usually less to do - you either sit and eat/drink, or stand. Home parties have more activities - people can cook their own food, browse books, play with other things. They also last longer, and in the end it can be just a few last people chilling on a couch discussing life and stuff in general - can't have that in a restaurant. (also, nice to find another party organiser!)
- smacky 3y ago
  But not really this. Many other parts of the world have much rarer house parties and much more done in restaurants with private rooms, etc being easy. Cultural norms and etiquette largely determines what we can enjoy and what is available, we aren't really following our own personal preferences most of the time. In the case of many of these things there's an early outlay of a lot of money to then pretend the incremental costs is negligible where something with less actual costs might be a lot more enjoyable but is harder to disguise.

konschubert 3y ago

Sometimes creating sunk cost can increase the likelihood of things happening. If I am a guest, I would rather use the guest room than a hotel room paid for by my host. The latter feels like I am free-riding, the first doesn't - even though the cost for a guest room is much bigger, it's already committed to. Also, staying at somebody's place is a very different experience than staying in the hotel down the road. With the hotel, you will leave at a reasonable time in the evening. With the guest room, you may end up staying up all night.

arghwhat 3y ago
> Sometimes creating sunk cost can increase the likelihood of things happening. If I buy a trailer I never needed, it does increase the chances of me using a trailer on a given occasion. It does not, however, mean that I used a trailer any less than I wanted to before, and if I hadn't sunk that cost I'd have more money for more useful things. In your case, inviting for parties or going to restaurants more often and having more luxurious ones. If you want to see your friends, don't buy stuff and hope they'll come use it. Invite them. > If I am a guest, I would rather use the guest room than a hotel room paid for by my host. If it's just one guest, they can sleep on the couch. Don't need spare bedrooms for that. > With the hotel, you will leave at a reasonable time in the evening. With the guest room, you may end up staying up all night. Not really. Leave late, stay up all night, whatever. The only thing they might care for is the checkout time if the hotel is expensive.
- jrumbut 3y ago
  > If it's just one guest, they can sleep on the couch. This works until your friends start getting married, start having back problems, or just want a little privacy while they sleep.
  - arghwhat 3y ago
    So they want to sleep at your place but are not comfortable having you around? And if they have back pain they can't sleep on just any mattress either, as it might be the wrong hardness for them. And you might have another friend staying over so now you need two guest bedrooms for them both to have privacy, and both of which need fancy specific mattresses, ah and what if it's one of those couples that don't sleep in the same bed so... Having an entirely unused room to cater to a very specific situation in which someone has to sleep in your house but also wants a hotel experience with a particular choice of mattress is a waste of effort. Guest bedroom by themselves is quite an American luxury thing. They're not at all a thing in Scandinavia unless you live in a mansion, and even then it would be weird waste of rooms to make spare bedrooms. Friends sleep on couches or fold-out beds if they need to sleep over.

RangerScience 3y ago

I mean, you're not wrong in general - if someone if sacrificing something they actually want (travel vacay) for something they only want the story of (hosting dinner parties) - then yeah. But in specific, goddamn there's so many differences between hosting a dinner party at home vs at a restaurant, or getting someone to visit and putting them up in a room vs a hotel. Totes agree about trucks tho.

ExoticPearTree 3y ago

For casual food, I prefer to have people over. And I don't mind the preparation time and the hassle of cleaning up afterwards. Restaurants are very impersonal and don't have the same vibe as a home cooked meal. Same with landscaping and other hobbies. The joy they bring you cannot be replaced by getting it done by someone else. And I think the cost of having a truck versus a sedan is marginal, especially in the US where the roads are wider and parking spaces can accommodate trucks without any issues.

omgJustTest 3y ago

>But instead of spending the money on a house big enough to host those dinner parties, you could host them at a fancy restaurant, with better food and the ability to spend the entire evening with the guests instead of in the kitchen. Just because an alternative exists now, does not mean it will in the future and also does not mean it is equivalent. >Plenty of landscaping places will deliver to the home, much more convenient, and cheaper overall when you can downsize your vehicle of choice. I ended up making life choices that let me not have a car at all, and I spend that money on traveling instead. Congrats on choices that make you happy. Other people do have cars though, which enable your lifestyle and your landscapers probably do not have an electric or a car manufactured in the last 15years.

numpad0 3y ago

> But instead of spending the money You just can't. You can deceive yourself all you want and skip all life events this way, but ultimately spending money cannot be substituted by not spending money and if attempted will cast long shadows onto your life if it going to exist at all. It's an ultimate bean counting, going over a same bag that never grows. > A small inconvenience to pay to save This thinking is literally penny wise and pound foolish. Taken me way too long to realize.

luzojeda 3y ago

What if people enjoy their privacy at homes? Leave them be...

itsoktocry 3y ago

>But instead of spending the money on a house big enough to host those dinner parties, you could host them at a fancy restaurant, with better food and the ability to spend the entire evening with the guests instead of in the kitchen. Maybe we can skip it all and send them a gift card from Uber Eats? If you think eating at a fancy restaurant is a substitute for being surround by family while you cook a huge dinner in a large, cozy home then I feel bad for you. >I find life to be more comfortable when treating edge cases like edge cases, and finding an appropriate solution. I bet if we looked at your life, "car" and "house" are compromises you are willing to make, "edge cases", but there are other things in there that you are not. Can I ask why you are so concerned about policing how other people want to spend their time and money?

iamthepieman 3y ago

I've done the admittedly rough cost benefit analysis and for me it doesn't work out. There's hidden edge cases in each of these and other cases. I did optimize in other ways to make up for the inefficient choices though. I have a huge house but live in a low CoL area where it costs the same as a condo in a high CoL place. I drive a big passenger van but live in a small town where I can walk to the grocery store, gym, and library. So you can mitigate in more ways than your suggesting.

trimistermota 3y ago

> But instead of spending the money on a house big enough to host those dinner parties, you could host them at a fancy restaurant, with better food and the ability to spend the entire evening with the guests instead of in the kitchen. I find it staggering that you would feel those are the same experiences. I feel there's a difference in what you consider to be a party and what people consider to be a party.

mattbrewsbytes 3y ago

Spontaneity is the reason. In my mind if I have a truck (I used to) I could go to the big box store any day I want and pick up nearly anything in that store and take it home to do something. Its not hard to think ahead but if you feel the urge to redo your flower beds and you have a truck (or a van too) you can do it when the urge strikes and not have to be limited to only landscape places that deliver or having to rent a truck and then return it, etc. Its spontaneity and freedom to do what you want when you want. Same goes for the OP story about EV's. The mental freedom of being able to drive across the country any time someone chooses is liberating vs. only being able to go 200 miles and having to plan out charging stations and wattages/volts/whatever.

_ea1k 3y ago

Sure, but that restaurant is likely expensive and the homeowner won't get the $$ back years later when he sells his house. Perpetual home price increases leads buyers into an "investing mindset". I don't particularly like it, but it is an easy one to fall into. This is doubly true since realtors make their money by encouraging it.

ochoseis 3y ago

I also used to think like this, but ultimately it reduces your spontaneity / flexibility / optionality. What if you want to host a gathering last minute, but it’s a busy time for restaurants? What if you sold your car because your city has a car share, and last minute you want to get out of town for the holiday (just like everyone else)? You obviously shouldn’t pay to cover every edge case, but if you can it’s worth paying for the ones you value.

AlgorithmicTime 3y ago

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radiator 3y ago

> But instead of spending the money on a house big enough to host those dinner parties, you could host them at a fancy restaurant, with better food. This is borderline infuriating. To suggest that a day with the extended family, which might include people from three different generations, at home could ever be replaced with two hours at a restaurant.

lagadu 3y ago
> two hours at a restaurant. I know there are significant cultural differences at stake here but if your party with family/friends at a restaurant only takes two hours, you're doing it wrong.
- strix_varius 3y ago
  If you spend more than two hours with a big group at a restaurant, the entire staff hates you.

thsksbd 3y ago

"But instead of spending the money on a house big enough to host those dinner parties, you could host them at a fancy restaurant, with better food and the ability to spend the entire evening with the guests instead of in the kitchen." That just not true. Restaurant quality has plummeted and it's easy to out cook them. Go to your average fancy wedding and the food is mediocre (this summer I went to a wedding in Canada's fanciest hotel. Same "fancy" fare you get anywhere else). By the time your guests arrive, if you're spending your time in the kitchen instead of entertaining, you've messed up. Also, you're telling OP how to live his life. You'd hate it if someone told you how to live yours. "And for hosting occasional guests an extra bedroom, plenty of solutions exist for creating temporary sleeping space in the living room, while leaving your own bedroom to the guests. A small inconvenience to pay to save out a whole bedroom to pay for and maintain. There’s also the option of going on vacation together, which can be a really fun way to spend the holidays." The carbon cost of vacations is not zero. Close the ducts to the extra room and maintaining it is essentially free. But again, you're telling OP how to live. You do your vacations with friends, I'll invite my in-laws to stay with me for a year. "Plenty of landscaping places will deliver to the home, much more convenient, and cheaper overall when you can downsize your vehicle of choice. I ended up making life choices that let me not have a car at all, and I spend that money on traveling instead." And the detritus afterwards? Since I don't have a truck Ive been slowly cleaning my yard one green bin a week at a time since moving in two years ago. With a pickup I could have finished in two weekends. Your travel is not environmentally sound at all. Sure, a plane gets 100 mpgp, if its full, but the distances are massive and its way worse overall. But that's your life, you can choose to do that if you want. I care too much for the environment to air travel much (and, as a "third culture kid" -yuck- I actually do have friends and family scattered through out the world). "My point is: I find life to be more comfortable when treating edge cases like edge cases, and finding an appropriate solution. I see so many people maxing out their house and car within their budget, and then talking about but never doing things they really want to, like that far away vacation, or that expensive hobby. I never quite understand why." You don't have to understand. Ppl like to bitch. They would have even if their choices were different. That is a message of basically all religions throughout time - be content with your now.