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Circulating an open letter point-blank criticizing the CEO is absolutely unprofessional and I'm honestly shocked anyone here thinks they could pull this crap wi

Circulating an open letter point-blank criticizing the CEO is absolutely unprofessional and I'm honestly shocked anyone here thinks they could pull this crap without getting fired.

mikojan 3y ago
On its own this would be a remarkably authoritarian position. But in light of the allegations I am just puzzled by this statement. Is there a line you would draw somewhere? Anywhere?
jrflowers 3y ago
This is a good point. Since employees are not shareholders they have no standing to criticize a CEO. Only someone with a financial stake in the future of a company should be able to voice their concerns without fear of retribution
- beachy 3y ago
  Employees are financially dependant on the company for salary and perhaps stock options - surely that counts as "a financial stake".
  - chii 3y ago
    the wording is wrong - it's not a financial stake that gives you said power, it's equity stake. This equity stake gives you a vote for which you can use to influence the actions of the board and thus the CEO. Being financially dependent on the company to provide employment by no means gives you power over the CEO. Of course, criticism is not black and white - but being an asshole CEO is not illegal, and putting yourself out to "fight the good fight" sounds good on paper, but do you no good at all.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- FridgeSeal 3y ago
  Indeed, the serfs need to be reminded of their position at the bottom. They serve at my pleasure, and they would be good to remember that next time they have some minor quibble. Like children, they need a strong hand to discipline them, and should be seen, but not heard.
  - jrflowers 3y ago
    Exactly, and it is good that none of these big companies regularly reward stock options as a way of remuneration or else the situ
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
fumeux_fume 3y ago
So it’s unprofessional to acknowledge unprofessional behavior? That’s a pretty cowardly take.
- roenxi 3y ago
  If you're going to flare up every time someone does something unprofessional, you're definitely being unprofessional. It is like politeness; someone else not having it might change how you behave but usually it doesn't. And there is a difference between acknowledging it and causing a scene. Rank and file employees engaging in a political attempt to topple the CEO is certainly unprofessional. That level of manoeuvring is purposefully causing damage.
gitaarik 3y ago
Yeah well, we have laws and a legal system right? I don't think our legal system says that you can't criticize the company you're working for, or that a company can fire people for criticizing the company. Criticism is healthy and should be respected. Even if it is "unprofessional", that doesn't give the company the right to just fire someone for that. If you would allow companies to fire their employees for criticism, that sounds a lot like a dictatorship to me.
- justrealist 3y ago
  Our legal system is, absent other laws, free employment, meaning you can be fired for anything not explicitly protected by law, and "pissing off the CEO" is not one of them.
  - gitaarik 3y ago
    Aha yeah, true, in the United States employers don't have much rights and can be quite easily fired for any reason. In Europe you usually need to have a valid reason to fire someone. Valid reasons can include refusal to perform work, culpable conduct, excessive sickness absence, reorganization, or company closure.
    - justrealist 3y ago
      Yes this is why the US has good software jobs and most good devs move to the US.
      - saagarjha 3y ago
        No, it’s because the US produces the most corn.
    - _Tev 3y ago
      Well sure, I like Europe employment more too. But SpaceX is not operating in Europe, and this is probably not the opportunity to change the entire system?
kibwen 3y ago
> I'm honestly shocked anyone here thinks they could pull this crap without getting fired. I'm shocked at how many closeted authoritarians here on HN crawl out of the woodwork to defend Musk every time that he faces criticism for his dictatorial actions.
tremon 3y ago
I thought said CEO was a hardcore free-speech apologist?

Circulating an open letter point-blank criticizing the CEO is absolutely unprofessional and I'm honestly shocked anyone here thinks they could pull this crap without getting fired.

mikojan 3y ago

On its own this would be a remarkably authoritarian position. But in light of the allegations I am just puzzled by this statement. Is there a line you would draw somewhere? Anywhere?

jrflowers 3y ago

This is a good point. Since employees are not shareholders they have no standing to criticize a CEO. Only someone with a financial stake in the future of a company should be able to voice their concerns without fear of retribution

beachy 3y ago
Employees are financially dependant on the company for salary and perhaps stock options - surely that counts as "a financial stake".
- chii 3y ago
  the wording is wrong - it's not a financial stake that gives you said power, it's equity stake. This equity stake gives you a vote for which you can use to influence the actions of the board and thus the CEO. Being financially dependent on the company to provide employment by no means gives you power over the CEO. Of course, criticism is not black and white - but being an asshole CEO is not illegal, and putting yourself out to "fight the good fight" sounds good on paper, but do you no good at all.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
FridgeSeal 3y ago
Indeed, the serfs need to be reminded of their position at the bottom. They serve at my pleasure, and they would be good to remember that next time they have some minor quibble. Like children, they need a strong hand to discipline them, and should be seen, but not heard.
- jrflowers 3y ago
  Exactly, and it is good that none of these big companies regularly reward stock options as a way of remuneration or else the situ
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

fumeux_fume 3y ago

So it’s unprofessional to acknowledge unprofessional behavior? That’s a pretty cowardly take.

roenxi 3y ago
If you're going to flare up every time someone does something unprofessional, you're definitely being unprofessional. It is like politeness; someone else not having it might change how you behave but usually it doesn't. And there is a difference between acknowledging it and causing a scene. Rank and file employees engaging in a political attempt to topple the CEO is certainly unprofessional. That level of manoeuvring is purposefully causing damage.

gitaarik 3y ago

Yeah well, we have laws and a legal system right? I don't think our legal system says that you can't criticize the company you're working for, or that a company can fire people for criticizing the company. Criticism is healthy and should be respected. Even if it is "unprofessional", that doesn't give the company the right to just fire someone for that. If you would allow companies to fire their employees for criticism, that sounds a lot like a dictatorship to me.

justrealist 3y ago
Our legal system is, absent other laws, free employment, meaning you can be fired for anything not explicitly protected by law, and "pissing off the CEO" is not one of them.
- gitaarik 3y ago
  Aha yeah, true, in the United States employers don't have much rights and can be quite easily fired for any reason. In Europe you usually need to have a valid reason to fire someone. Valid reasons can include refusal to perform work, culpable conduct, excessive sickness absence, reorganization, or company closure.
  - justrealist 3y ago
    Yes this is why the US has good software jobs and most good devs move to the US.
    - saagarjha 3y ago
      No, it’s because the US produces the most corn.
  - _Tev 3y ago
    Well sure, I like Europe employment more too. But SpaceX is not operating in Europe, and this is probably not the opportunity to change the entire system?

kibwen 3y ago

> I'm honestly shocked anyone here thinks they could pull this crap without getting fired. I'm shocked at how many closeted authoritarians here on HN crawl out of the woodwork to defend Musk every time that he faces criticism for his dictatorial actions.

tremon 3y ago

I thought said CEO was a hardcore free-speech apologist?