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> I don’t understand what people expect to gain by antagonizing people that cannot drive an EV it's because the people who do this are actually expecting those

by chii 3y ago

> I don’t understand what people expect to gain by antagonizing people that cannot drive an EV it's because the people who do this are actually expecting those who cannot drive EVs to sacrifice, in order to drive an agenda (which might be climate change for example).

toomuchtodo 3y ago
> drive an agenda (which might be climate change for example). Calling climate change an agenda is like calling gravity a political position. If you don’t believe in climate change, there is no value in a discussion. If you’re driving a studio apartment on wheels around town, some sacrifice might be required. The future is unlikely to look like the past. “About a quarter of Americans (23%) think they’ll have to make major sacrifices in their everyday lives because of climate change. A larger share (48%) expects to make minor sacrifices because of climate impacts and 28% of Americans expect to make no sacrifices at all.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_fossil_fuel_vehicles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_fossil_fuel_vehic... https://climate.nasa.gov/faq/17/do-scientists-agree-on-climate-change/ https://climate.nasa.gov/faq/17/do-scientists-agree-on-clima... https://www.npr.org/2023/10/25/1208016669/heres-how-americans-feel-about-climate-change https://www.npr.org/2023/10/25/1208016669/heres-how-american...
- chii 3y ago
  > If you don’t believe in climate change, there is no value in a discussion. it's not the belief that's in question. It's the actions required. I, and many others (whether they admit it or not), do not wish to make personal sacrifices to fix climate change, if others are not willing to make the same level of sacrifices (such that relative positioning within society does not change).
  - deleted 3y ago
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  - deleted 3y ago
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  - thecopy 3y ago
    This is a fundamental dynamic of human behaviour. To deny this is detrimental to the goal of reducing climate change and improving the environment we live in. This is why i think we need global policy changes and regulation to achieve the commonly beneficial goals.
    - rbanffy 3y ago
      If we wish our species to survive long-term we might need to educate ourselves so that we behave in less selfish ways. I don’t live in Florida, but I am doing my part in saving it (I love my friends who live there).
      - thecopy 3y ago
        That is naive. Humans are selfish, we need to accept this and adapt our poicies accordingly - as we have historically.
        rbanffy 3y ago
        We can give up, of course, and always assume the worst out of everyone, including us, or we can use whatever tools are within reach to, at least, try to make better humans. While I agree we aren't the nicest species of primate (that title goes to our cousins, the Bonobos), I also believe a lot of our nastiness can be attributed to nurture rather than nature.
        thecopy 3y ago
        My point is that as individuals we are not OK with making individual sacrifices if the neighbour does not have to. If everyone makes the same sacrifice we are OK with it, see GP's point. My feeling is that any individual is OK with sacrifice as long as they are not unfairly disadvantaged relavitely to their society/neighbours. For example: i would not be willing to pay more income tax unless this applied for everyone; even if i wanted higher income taxes.
        3y ago
  - pjc50 3y ago
    Americans would say, if offered the choice between losing Florida to the sea or cheaper gas prices, "so what's the downside?"
    - rbanffy 3y ago
      I would totally understand if Floridians got really mad at the people who are unwilling to change their lightbulbs to LED ones in order to save their land.
- rbanffy 3y ago
  A good couple Americans living in coastal areas might end up sacrificing living in coastal areas because of climate change. Others who are subject to increasingly frequent extreme weather events might end up sacrificing their current homes in favor of underground bunkers. The world is changing fast and the Earth does not wait for its population to be ready.
Reason077 3y ago
> "it's because the people who do this are actually expecting those who cannot drive EVs to sacrifice, in order to drive an agenda" There's plenty of good reasons to drive an EV even if you don't care about climate change or the environment. Lower running costs, less maintenance, better reliability, better performance, quieter smoother driving experience, etc. Besides that, there are significant wider economic benefits from domestically-sourced fuel: money spent on electricity returns to the local economy rather than enriching (often foreign) oil giants, and electricity is much more resilient against fuel price fluctuations caused by wars and oil shocks etc.

by chii 3y ago

toomuchtodo 3y ago

> drive an agenda (which might be climate change for example). Calling climate change an agenda is like calling gravity a political position. If you don’t believe in climate change, there is no value in a discussion. If you’re driving a studio apartment on wheels around town, some sacrifice might be required. The future is unlikely to look like the past. “About a quarter of Americans (23%) think they’ll have to make major sacrifices in their everyday lives because of climate change. A larger share (48%) expects to make minor sacrifices because of climate impacts and 28% of Americans expect to make no sacrifices at all.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_fossil_fuel_vehicles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_fossil_fuel_vehic... https://climate.nasa.gov/faq/17/do-scientists-agree-on-climate-change/ https://climate.nasa.gov/faq/17/do-scientists-agree-on-clima... https://www.npr.org/2023/10/25/1208016669/heres-how-americans-feel-about-climate-change https://www.npr.org/2023/10/25/1208016669/heres-how-american...

chii 3y ago
> If you don’t believe in climate change, there is no value in a discussion. it's not the belief that's in question. It's the actions required. I, and many others (whether they admit it or not), do not wish to make personal sacrifices to fix climate change, if others are not willing to make the same level of sacrifices (such that relative positioning within society does not change).
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- thecopy 3y ago
  This is a fundamental dynamic of human behaviour. To deny this is detrimental to the goal of reducing climate change and improving the environment we live in. This is why i think we need global policy changes and regulation to achieve the commonly beneficial goals.
  - rbanffy 3y ago
    If we wish our species to survive long-term we might need to educate ourselves so that we behave in less selfish ways. I don’t live in Florida, but I am doing my part in saving it (I love my friends who live there).
    - thecopy 3y ago
      That is naive. Humans are selfish, we need to accept this and adapt our poicies accordingly - as we have historically.
      - rbanffy 3y ago
        We can give up, of course, and always assume the worst out of everyone, including us, or we can use whatever tools are within reach to, at least, try to make better humans. While I agree we aren't the nicest species of primate (that title goes to our cousins, the Bonobos), I also believe a lot of our nastiness can be attributed to nurture rather than nature.
        thecopy 3y ago
        My point is that as individuals we are not OK with making individual sacrifices if the neighbour does not have to. If everyone makes the same sacrifice we are OK with it, see GP's point. My feeling is that any individual is OK with sacrifice as long as they are not unfairly disadvantaged relavitely to their society/neighbours. For example: i would not be willing to pay more income tax unless this applied for everyone; even if i wanted higher income taxes.
        3y ago
- pjc50 3y ago
  Americans would say, if offered the choice between losing Florida to the sea or cheaper gas prices, "so what's the downside?"
  - rbanffy 3y ago
    I would totally understand if Floridians got really mad at the people who are unwilling to change their lightbulbs to LED ones in order to save their land.
rbanffy 3y ago
A good couple Americans living in coastal areas might end up sacrificing living in coastal areas because of climate change. Others who are subject to increasingly frequent extreme weather events might end up sacrificing their current homes in favor of underground bunkers. The world is changing fast and the Earth does not wait for its population to be ready.

Reason077 3y ago

> "it's because the people who do this are actually expecting those who cannot drive EVs to sacrifice, in order to drive an agenda" There's plenty of good reasons to drive an EV even if you don't care about climate change or the environment. Lower running costs, less maintenance, better reliability, better performance, quieter smoother driving experience, etc. Besides that, there are significant wider economic benefits from domestically-sourced fuel: money spent on electricity returns to the local economy rather than enriching (often foreign) oil giants, and electricity is much more resilient against fuel price fluctuations caused by wars and oil shocks etc.