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Reasons to grow and keep big muscles

127 points by daco 3y ago

noworld 3y ago
Relevant https://youtu.be/wVPn14A1msc https://youtu.be/wVPn14A1msc
- kortex 3y ago
  FYI, just a friendly reminder: HN culturally isn't reddit and low-effort comments with just a video reaction usually don't do well here.
CJefferson 3y ago
Quite a few unjustified graphs, sometimes with no axis labels. Putting it on a graph doesn't magically make it true.
- malfist 3y ago
  I think this article is all broscience and no science
  - mmmrk 3y ago
    Maybe https://startingstrength.com/article/barbell_training_is_big_medicine https://startingstrength.com/article/barbell_training_is_big... is more to your liking?
  - joshmlewis 3y ago
    The main theme of the blog post is taken from Peter Attia's "Outlive" book which is a compilation of science backed ways to improve health and wellbeing long-term which includes resistance training. Peter is very science driven and worth checking out. No "bro-y" at all.
    - Podgajski 3y ago
      It’s not science driven if you show a graph, exhibiting correlation, and telling us it’s causation.
  - FrustratedMonky 3y ago
    Maybe the muscly pictures puts some people off as 'Bro's. And maybe the article was light on citations, But there is science. Everyone, even grandmothers, should be doing some resistance training. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10121111/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10121111/
- joshmlewis 3y ago
  There's one graph without an axis label and while it'd help give some context, the point is to show peak muscle and how it declines over time. The same point is shown in more detail on a graph with axis labels a little more down. This article is largely a very brief summarization of a topic from Peter Attia's book Outlive which is worth checking out.
mmmrk 3y ago
My favorite introduction to this is the book "The Barbell Prescription", together with "Basic Barbell Training, 3rd Edition". They got me out of just getting sweaty and tired in the gym to actually training and increasing my strength. The people behind these books also run the YouTube channels https://www.youtube.com/@GreySteel https://www.youtube.com/@GreySteel and https://www.youtube.com/@startingstrength https://www.youtube.com/@startingstrength, respectively. Lots of highly educational videos on these!
adrynile 3y ago
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jaimex2 3y ago
Focus on your mental wellbeing and don't abuse your body. You don't need to grow anything. Use your muscles by being active, a hard thing to do in IT.
- stinkytaco 3y ago
  One thing I've found in fitness is that people need to do what will keep them active and for many, that requires specific guidance or goals. General prescriptions like "use your muscles by being active" is fine, but what does active mean? Some people like bodybuilding, or powerlifting, or powerbuilding, or crossfit, or hiking, or basketball or whatever and if those things get them active, then that's good. The current physical activity guidelines call for 150 minutes of moderate intensity cardiovascular training per week and at resistance training on at least 2 days per week. There's lots of ways to get there, and maybe strength training is the way to do it for some people. Even if that's not the focus, however, people should set aside some time to focus on resistance training because it provides a number of long term benefits.
- potato24 3y ago
  muscle is not body abuse. Being static is a bigger abuse.
  - throw1234651234 3y ago
    For anyone still on the fence / deluding themselves: Moving helps joints heal: https://www.arthritis-health.com/types/joint-anatomy/how-do-synovial-joints-work#:~:text=When%20a%20joint%20is%20at,synovial%20fluid%20throughout%20the%20joint https://www.arthritis-health.com/types/joint-anatomy/how-do-.... Fitness increases IQ: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091202101751.htm#:~:text=The%20study%20shows%20a%20clear,IQ%20test%2C%20and%20not%20strength https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091202101751.h....
- matwood 3y ago
  > Focus on your mental wellbeing and don't abuse your body. Heavy weight lifting is one of the best things I do for my mental well being.
flint 3y ago
I think Mark Ripptoe is the best guy on what and how to do it. His explanation of what to do and the details of how to do it in his book Starting Strength are astonishingly detailed. An engineering process document on how to build strength. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Rippetoe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Rippetoe
- beezlebroxxxxxx 3y ago
  Rippetoe is great for beginners and for the most part he as a pretty deserved cult following online because he has been the entry point for so many people into going to the gym and lifting in particular. The drawback of this is that there's this idea that he is the standard. But he's actually very opinionated, has some outdated info, and is very focused on powerlifting. That's not to take away from his utility for beginners, but once you are out of the beginner stage his programming recommendations are not as effective or sport specific enough for a lot of people. If someone is going to the gym to improve at a sport, which is recommended for practically all sports, then something like Dan John's "Easy Strength" where lifting is the means to improving at the sport and not simply the end goal is probably a better direction.
  - ng12 3y ago
    True, but I would say - if you're serious about it - once you've graduated from Starting Strength programming you are already very strong, which is the goal.
  - brandonmenc 3y ago
    > The drawback of this is that there's this idea that he is the standard. But he's actually very opinionated, has some outdated info, and is very focused on powerlifting. Came here to say the same thing. And afaict even his powerlifting advice is bizarre and dated. After helping out some beginners get into lifting I'd say his program is at best a poor use of time and at worst, dangerous and encourages injury.
    - mmmrk 3y ago
Sytten 3y ago
Any people have guides on how to train with free weights + bench? I don't have space for the rack he mentions and I hate going to the gym. Is there a 5x5 equivalent?
- jairuhme 3y ago
  You may find something by searching YouTube. I've found that there's a wide variety to the amount of equipment needed and at worse, just pick things out of different videos based on the equipment you have
  - jader201 3y ago
    Is YouTube really the best place to get medical/health guidance from? I’m sure there are some channels that are ok, but my cynical take is that most channels are there for one reason: to make money (by getting views). This is often (usually?) contradictory to giving good guidance, vs. telling people what they want to hear.
    - stinkytaco 3y ago
      I'm perhaps idealistic by saying that at least some of this time, these things can coexist. It's ok to make money doing a thing. I'm reminded of this video that makes an excellent point: https://youtu.be/x1kv3oKoZkQ?si=iehzC8H815vEtA1M https://youtu.be/x1kv3oKoZkQ?si=iehzC8H815vEtA1M Part of the problem is that most of this works. If you pick up heavy things, you will get stronger. If you're trying to differentiate yourself you'll focus on specific techniques or sports, but really, the basics are not hard: do something that's difficult and your body will adapt to improve its ability to do that thing. However, some specifics that I've found useful: Barbell Medicine - focuses on strength training, not just barbells. The Bioneer - a little lifestyle heavy, but the basic advice is sound. Alan Thrall- also barbell focused, but lots of good advice to be gleaned there, including on bodyweight. Ross Enamait - boxing focus, but bodyweight stuff. His book "Never Gymless" is good. Underground Strength Gym - an oldie, but a goodie.
    - jairuhme 3y ago
snapcaster 3y ago
It always feels like these articles never mention the "real" reasons people work out and stay motivated. It makes you super attractive! It's great to be treated so nicely by everyone (compared to how i was treated when 50 pounds heavier). It's validating to have members of your desired sex lust for you. I wish I was wise enough to be motivated by the idea that i'll be more mobile in 40 years but if i'm being honest I think the actual motivation is the validation from others
- gamerDude 3y ago
  That may be a reason to start, but most people that I know that consistently work out learn to enjoy it. For me, it helps me release emotions and feel more focused in the day. Being fit definitely has its social benefits in romance, but it isn't the reason I go when it's far below freezing out at 730 in the morning. Research also backs this. That the people who keep going find ways to enjoy it and not for the long term hope of losing weight or looking fit.
  - toolz 3y ago
    I really wish depressed people were more in tune with just how profound resistance training is for your mental and emotional health. Instead it seems easy to dismiss weight lifting as some sort of bro-club occupied by oppressive toxic individuals (at least that was my passive opinion of it for years).
    - phil21 3y ago
      I wouldn't quite say I went so far to think it was a toxic bro-club, but I certainly did not give resistance training the consideration I should have until this past year. If I could make a single change in my life 20 years ago, it would be getting into a gym habit. I tried back then, but had both horrible trainers (the "puke and rally" bro type) and friends who didn't have a clue about what they were doing. It all seemed pointless to me unless immense effort was put in. I also worked landscape and came from a blue collar family background where working out was seen as a sign of bougieness - who needs to pay to go work out if you work hard all day? But this year (at age 42) I got a personal trainer at a local gym and started going once a week. She is great, and matches my personality and style to the workouts. I never realized how quickly and easily you can start seeing results - and that feedback loop can be quite addictive. I can't say I look forward to going into the gym now, but I at least don't dread it. Once I'm there and halfway through my routine I'm quite happy I went, and it really does impact your mood and emotional state probably much more than I even want to admit as I type this. It's hard to realize you went through most of your life ignoring such a major component of success - basically playing life on hard mode for no particular reason. The gym is also interesting in that you can be having a real shitty unproductive day - but you go in and get your routine done - and you can still feel accomplished. Bad week at work? At least you still got your 3 workouts in and are 2% stronger than last month.
Podgajski 3y ago
Ugh. Please… You know, my grandfather was thin as a stick and lived to 99 and was as sharp as a tack. Muscles need energy. When you use energy you produce waste. The waste in the muscles case is reactive oxygen species,. If you can’t clear that waste, you will become sick and fatigued and have disease. If you increase muscle mass without making sure you’re getting rid of these reactive, oxygen species Muscle mass won’t do a thing for your longevity. If you want to live longer, balance your oxidative stress.
- blitz_skull 3y ago
  Bro. I can’t tell if this is a joke or not. Outliers are a thing, there’s a good book on them. Your personal anecdote to your grandfather does not flip the table on all the research that clearly and definitively proves otherwise. Beyond that, resistance training DOES combat stress. C’mon man. Some counter opinions just aren’t worth voicing.
  - alienicecream 3y ago
    C'mon man, dude, bro just get with the program guy.
    - blitz_skull 3y ago
      This guy gets it.
  - Podgajski 3y ago
    I want you to tell me who is not an outlier on a bell curve? How flat is the bell curve? How tall is it? Aren’t really most of us outliers?
- foobarbaz33 3y ago
  There's always 1 person anecdotes. Monohar the body builder and early Mr. Universe winner lived to 104. Continuing to lift to the very end. I'd wager he was the most mobile centenarian ever too.
2food 3y ago
Excellent advice. It's still severely underrated by "most people", just how important strength training is to your general health and well-being. Especially as you get older.
potato24 3y ago
I actually put my feet under the couch and do sit-ups. If you are a big guy like me and can't do push ups, then you can do Knee push-ups or alternatively you can also stand between two walls at angle and push yourself away from the other wall. For heavier guys like me This is the equivalent of pushing about 20Kg. In general the higher the incline the less of your body weight you lift. If you don't have any dumbbells at home you can also fill up multiple water bottles and put them in a rather strong bag(like the eco friendly ones you buy at the store). After all 1L of water is about 1Kg. Don't forget, you must not rush the exercise. Slow make sure you keep a good form. Also if this is your first day exercising. Don't do more than 5-10 minutes. You can increase the time you exercise the next time.
stabbles 3y ago
> I also do a bit of aerobic exercices (cardio). But excessive cardio is counterproductive, leading to loss of muscle mass and potential joint issues. It's fine to do a lot of aerobic training. You almost certainly build up muscle instead of burning it; aerobic training by definition is about burning fat (not that you'll lose weight). Joint issues can be avoided by sticking to a plan that slowly increases load (e.g. < 10% distance increase per week for running) and keeping track of your heart rate (e.g. < 75% of max).
- wanderingstan 3y ago
  Yeah, the article went off the rails there. It’s okay to prefer weight training, but cardio is great for health too. (Including building and keeping muscle mass.)
- robin-whg 3y ago
  But it's not ideal. You make it harder for yourself if you want to focus on muscle mass. It's harder to be in a calorie surplus, the energy you consume gets used to restore what you lost with the cardio and you simply have less time for recovery if you want to keep the same training volume in your weight training.
  - thebigspacefuck 3y ago
    I thought Attia recommends increasing your VO2max which is a function with weight as the denominator, so losing as much weight as possible while still being strong would be preferred to gaining muscle mass and being heavy.
  - oarfish 3y ago
    Some base level of cardio only makes it harder to gain muscle mass if you are really short on time. I don't think it'll hinder the average person to maintain a surplus – first, you don't burn that many calories exercising as you might think, especially once you're adapted to it, and second, our food environment makes it relatively easy to increase calories if needed. I'd also challenge the idea that cardio interferes with your recovery for weight training purposes.
gniv 3y ago
I wish the article had a picture like this too: https://twitter.com/ChamberofFit/status/1688607251316056065 https://twitter.com/ChamberofFit/status/1688607251316056065
goblinux 3y ago
If you’re interested in a deeper dive, this is basically a summary of Peter Attia’s Outlive https://peterattiamd.com/outlive/ https://peterattiamd.com/outlive/ It’s a good book, I’m currently reading it now. The premise is: if you want your later years to be healthier (as thoroughly defined in the book, but covering physical and emotional wellness), you need to start early with a long term plan So far so good, I’m enjoying it
- mhb 3y ago
  Yes. He seems good. After hearing him on Making Sense, I tried to read the book, but it was way too much for me. Also I don't really care about his personal issues. Kudos.
  - sn9 3y ago
    This book is simpler and focuses on the big levers without getting into the weeds: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B2BWSWHH?psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B2BWSWHH?psc=1
- bbasketball 3y ago
  Here's a summary of it for those interested: https://littlerbooks.com/summary/outlive https://littlerbooks.com/summary/outlive
mhb 3y ago
Looks like the basic ideas are right, but Attia seems a lot more thorough: https://peterattiamd.com/about/ https://peterattiamd.com/about/ Summary: Eat 1g of protein per pound of body weight Creatine seems good on the margin and there's no downside to it. Resistance training and cardio are both very important and you should probably be doing significantly more than is comfortable. Sugar in moderation isn't as big a problem as it is made out to be. Alcohol has no benefit and is harmful, to some extent, but Attia still drinks it.
- H1Supreme 3y ago
  > Eat 1g of protein per pound of body weight I believe it's 1g per pound of "lean" body mass.
  - gradys 3y ago
    There are many different rules of thumb on this floating around. 1g per lb of body weight is indeed something a number of well informed people recommend, but those people generally acknowledge that it’s something like an upper bound on the amount that is useful.
- a12k 3y ago
  Can you share a source for your summary? It's not in the link you provided and I don't see anything searching Peter's site directly on point (though may be contained in podcast episodes or something).
  - bbasketball 3y ago
    It's from his book Outlive. Here's a summary of it. https://littlerbooks.com/summary/outlive https://littlerbooks.com/summary/outlive
  - mhb 3y ago
    I listened to him on this podcast and then attempted to follow up by reading the book, but the book (Outlive) was way too much for me. https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/making-sense-episodes/328-health-longevity https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/making-sense-episodes/328...
richardvsu 3y ago
I would highly recommend Olympic weightlifting as a form of resistance training for those who are inspired by technical challenges. https://books.google.com/books/about/Science_and_Practice_of_Strength_Trainin.html?id=3v3FDwAAQBAJ https://books.google.com/books/about/Science_and_Practice_of...
kayg04 3y ago
Stronglifts 5x5 is simply a terrible program to start. Pick a frequency you can adhere to over the long course of time, be it 2x - 6x a week, and stick to the basics. Don't try to lift ultra heavy on day 1 and btw, you don't need to lift heavy to build muscle. If you are looking to start, huge shoutout to Dr. Mike from Renaissance Periodisation and Dr. Milo from Wolf Coaching. Both of their YouTube channels are excellent and set you up for the long-term.
- mattgreenrocks 3y ago
  I had trouble with 5x5 when starting out. It was billed as simple and foolproof, but my form was lacking. I am hyper-mobile, so this means I really have to train proprioception, and probably not make the most gains in the shortest amount of time. This is something I didn't know I didn't know, and I had to learn the hard way. It doesn't mean 5x5 is bad, it just didn't fit for me when starting out initially. Lifting forums have a tendency towards the idea that, "you aren't special, just do these things" because they have a lot of people descend upon them with too many questions. But sometimes things aren't working, and you need to adjust.
  - kayg04 3y ago
    Mate, 5x5 isn't even what you would do to make the most gains possible. The amount of pump / soreness / disruption / metabolite sequestration you get with your 5RM is... very very low. It will certainly make you stronger but it won't grow you a lot of muscle. > But sometimes things aren't working, and you need to adjust. Absolutely. Dogmatic approaches to training doesn't work very well. Listening to your body and adapting does.
    - mattgreenrocks 3y ago
      What programs do you like for hypertrophy? At this point I'm mostly interested in that, I mostly need functional strength.
      - kayg04 3y ago
dkarl 3y ago
A lot of things have sold me on the value of weight training for size and strength, but watching my parents decline physically has been the biggest. I don't think they understood how close they were to losing the ability to enjoy specific activities. They thought of weight training as kind of a meathead thing, something you do to belong to a meathead tribe, and they couldn't see why I would do it since 1) they raised me to value intellect over physicality, and 2) there's no way I could ever enjoy the benefits of being perceived as a meathead, since our genetics didn't allow for it. My efforts to get them to see it as a practical means for improving their lives went nowhere, until my mom realized she was having trouble stepping up onto curbs. Now she works with a trainer once a week, and she's thinking doing it twice a week since once isn't killing her. Better late than never.
raynr 3y ago
I exercise to maintain healthspan and keep fit, but I am by no means "fit" by the standards of people who are fit. I've seen what strong looks like (I'm not very big, at the oly gym I used to frequent I saw someone my height and weight bench > 3 plates at a meet), I've seen what performance endurance in a run, cycle, and swim looks like, and I've also seen what the vast majority of people at my office are like. The author has some great reasons to grow and keep big muscles, but I have some thoughts to add for that "majority of people at the office" crowd. Thought #1: there is one item that the author mentions that I think is absolutely critical yet buried all the way at the bottom. > If you’re over 30 (or even in your 20s and able to afford it), hire a personal trainer to start. They can check your form and avoid any kind of injuries. With weights, it is really easy to get a bad form, no matter how many youtube videos you watch. I went to see a Physiotherapist 4 years after I started squats, and this is the best thing I’ve ever done. She retaught me everything I think I knew about squatting. I cannot over-emphasise how important it is to focus on form so you avoid injuries. When you're older, hurting yourself will knock you off the exercise horse for years. Also, note that if you're in your 30s and have been mostly sedentary your adult life, the squat and deadlift may not even be movements that you have the range of motion to do. Don't fall into the trap of pushing yourself because the program said so or the internet said so or because you feel inadequate next to the huge gains that people are showing off on the internet. There is absolutely no shame in taking things slower. Remember your goal is not to look good naked on the beach next summer, it is to maintain healthspan into your 70s. Thought #2: cardio is important, the author's warning about "too much cardio because your joints will give out and you will lose muscle" is really odd and feels like I'm browsing /r/fitness in 2010. If you're very concerned about your joints, do something lower impact, like swim or cycle or row or the elliptical. But do take your rest days. Thought #3: stronglifts 5x5 is great if you're in your 20s or your early 30s. If you're older than that, well, you can still do it but please be careful. See thought #1 above.
- AtlasBarfed 3y ago
  The lifting crowd hates cardio people. Because they are skinny wimpy girly men in their mainstream values... Yes it is that dumb, it is SNL skit. It's actually a really good filter. Keep those people at arms length. The ones that don't have that attitude are the ones with positive balance aren't headed for the steroid slope. Lifting is something that you should do with yoga or Pilates, swimming, some running and biking all in the mix. Because you get benefits from all of them. The best starting workout for people imo is you lift 3 exercises, one set each to about 10-15 reps, then do 5 minutes of cardio between them. Do that cycle 4 times. You'll get 20 minutes of cardio and 12 different exercises. Make sure 2-3 of the motions are lower body.
giantg2 3y ago
The title is very misleading. Most of the research given is about exercise, and including some level of strength training, being an overall health benefit. The research does not necessarily support higher body mass (eg big muscles) being beneficial or even necessary. Higher muscle mass can actually be a detriment to things like joint, heart, and kidney health. What matters is exercise that includes some strength training. Training for healthy strength (includes stamina, complex movement, etc and not just max weight) should be the focus over building mass. There are even studies showing that measures like grip strength matter most in relation to body mass - meaning strength to mass ratio matters. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6778477/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6778477/
- mharig 3y ago
  Weight lifting trains too few muscles. Do Calisthenics instead. It has the further advantages that you can do it at near every place you like, and it costs next to nothin'.
oarfish 3y ago
While this article has the right message, there are some things that stand out as odd > If you’re over 30 (or even in your 20s and able to afford it), hire a personal trainer to start. They can check your form and avoid any kind of injuries. With weights, it is really easy to get a bad form, no matter how many youtube videos you watch. I went to see a Physiotherapist 4 years after I started squats, and this is the best thing I’ve ever done. She retaught me everything I think I knew about squatting. This seems to suggest that "bad form" (which has no clear definition) would be a reliable source of injury, which it isn't. People like to harp on this because they've had a bad experience, but it's not a scientific fact that you have to move in some particular way to avoid injury. Don't let the absence of a personal trainer stop you from investing in your health. > But excessive cardio is counterproductive, leading to loss of muscle mass and potential joint issues. Such an incredible claim would need substantial evidence. As long as we are not talking about extreme exercise volumes, I call bullshit on this one. --- I see a lot of in humble opinion uninformed comments in this thread. I believe the hackers here might be interested in barbell medicine [1], they have a podcast [2] that has way more info than one might ever want on health and training-related topics. I also feel it's a great innoculator against bullshit, which feels to be the majority of content about fitness these days. 1. https://www.barbellmedicine.com/articles/ https://www.barbellmedicine.com/articles/ 2. https://open.spotify.com/show/3orDJTthUjwYdSPTSKuyZP https://open.spotify.com/show/3orDJTthUjwYdSPTSKuyZP
jstummbillig 3y ago
I have been doing fairly advanced body-weight only stuff for the last couple of years. I really, really want to a) work out from home and b) not buy any big equipment, particularly barbells, but I have gotten around to believe(?) that I might benefit from adding weights to my training. Realistically, am I kidding myself that I will be fine without barbells? I would be fine with adding dumbbells and kettlebells at any weight. Does this work? My goals pretty much align with the idea around this article: I want to stay healthy, long. I do not want to injure myself. Looks are of no concern to me. I understand that workouts are a topic with strong opinions. If you are into barbells you probably also do it because you believe it's necessary. Given a level response on this might not be simple but it would be much appreciated
- darkerside 3y ago
  Nothing will train sheer strength like a barbell. There's just no other easy way to force your body to move that amount of weight.
  - jstummbillig 3y ago
    Why would (unsupported) single leg squats, or one arm push-ups or pull-ups (maybe with an additional weight vest or some weight) not work? I feel the math could be made to look equivalent and, just observationally, I don't think a lot of people are ablke to do single anything so there should be plenty room to grow? As far as I am able to tell without having done any, barbells are "simpler" because you can scale them fairly smoothly.
    - darkerside 3y ago
      You just aren't moving the same amount of weight with those exercises. If I'm squatting 300 pounds, while most of the time the weight is distributed, there will be moments where one of my legs is balancing close to 300 pounds. There will be no moment anywhere close to that with a single leg pistol or skater squat. Those are great exercises, but you'll get a different outcome IMO.
- 3y ago
fuzzfactor 3y ago
I would say it's more like good reasons to not be inactive, too thin or overweight.

127 points by daco 3y ago

noworld 3y ago

Relevant https://youtu.be/wVPn14A1msc https://youtu.be/wVPn14A1msc

kortex 3y ago
FYI, just a friendly reminder: HN culturally isn't reddit and low-effort comments with just a video reaction usually don't do well here.

CJefferson 3y ago

Quite a few unjustified graphs, sometimes with no axis labels. Putting it on a graph doesn't magically make it true.

malfist 3y ago
I think this article is all broscience and no science
- mmmrk 3y ago
  Maybe https://startingstrength.com/article/barbell_training_is_big_medicine https://startingstrength.com/article/barbell_training_is_big... is more to your liking?
- joshmlewis 3y ago
  The main theme of the blog post is taken from Peter Attia's "Outlive" book which is a compilation of science backed ways to improve health and wellbeing long-term which includes resistance training. Peter is very science driven and worth checking out. No "bro-y" at all.
  - Podgajski 3y ago
    It’s not science driven if you show a graph, exhibiting correlation, and telling us it’s causation.
- FrustratedMonky 3y ago
  Maybe the muscly pictures puts some people off as 'Bro's. And maybe the article was light on citations, But there is science. Everyone, even grandmothers, should be doing some resistance training. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10121111/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10121111/
joshmlewis 3y ago
There's one graph without an axis label and while it'd help give some context, the point is to show peak muscle and how it declines over time. The same point is shown in more detail on a graph with axis labels a little more down. This article is largely a very brief summarization of a topic from Peter Attia's book Outlive which is worth checking out.

mmmrk 3y ago

My favorite introduction to this is the book "The Barbell Prescription", together with "Basic Barbell Training, 3rd Edition". They got me out of just getting sweaty and tired in the gym to actually training and increasing my strength. The people behind these books also run the YouTube channels https://www.youtube.com/@GreySteel https://www.youtube.com/@GreySteel and https://www.youtube.com/@startingstrength https://www.youtube.com/@startingstrength, respectively. Lots of highly educational videos on these!

adrynile 3y ago

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jaimex2 3y ago

Focus on your mental wellbeing and don't abuse your body. You don't need to grow anything. Use your muscles by being active, a hard thing to do in IT.

stinkytaco 3y ago
One thing I've found in fitness is that people need to do what will keep them active and for many, that requires specific guidance or goals. General prescriptions like "use your muscles by being active" is fine, but what does active mean? Some people like bodybuilding, or powerlifting, or powerbuilding, or crossfit, or hiking, or basketball or whatever and if those things get them active, then that's good. The current physical activity guidelines call for 150 minutes of moderate intensity cardiovascular training per week and at resistance training on at least 2 days per week. There's lots of ways to get there, and maybe strength training is the way to do it for some people. Even if that's not the focus, however, people should set aside some time to focus on resistance training because it provides a number of long term benefits.
potato24 3y ago
muscle is not body abuse. Being static is a bigger abuse.
- throw1234651234 3y ago
  For anyone still on the fence / deluding themselves: Moving helps joints heal: https://www.arthritis-health.com/types/joint-anatomy/how-do-synovial-joints-work#:~:text=When%20a%20joint%20is%20at,synovial%20fluid%20throughout%20the%20joint https://www.arthritis-health.com/types/joint-anatomy/how-do-.... Fitness increases IQ: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091202101751.htm#:~:text=The%20study%20shows%20a%20clear,IQ%20test%2C%20and%20not%20strength https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091202101751.h....
matwood 3y ago
> Focus on your mental wellbeing and don't abuse your body. Heavy weight lifting is one of the best things I do for my mental well being.

flint 3y ago

I think Mark Ripptoe is the best guy on what and how to do it. His explanation of what to do and the details of how to do it in his book Starting Strength are astonishingly detailed. An engineering process document on how to build strength. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Rippetoe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Rippetoe

beezlebroxxxxxx 3y ago
Rippetoe is great for beginners and for the most part he as a pretty deserved cult following online because he has been the entry point for so many people into going to the gym and lifting in particular. The drawback of this is that there's this idea that he is the standard. But he's actually very opinionated, has some outdated info, and is very focused on powerlifting. That's not to take away from his utility for beginners, but once you are out of the beginner stage his programming recommendations are not as effective or sport specific enough for a lot of people. If someone is going to the gym to improve at a sport, which is recommended for practically all sports, then something like Dan John's "Easy Strength" where lifting is the means to improving at the sport and not simply the end goal is probably a better direction.
- ng12 3y ago
  True, but I would say - if you're serious about it - once you've graduated from Starting Strength programming you are already very strong, which is the goal.
- brandonmenc 3y ago
  > The drawback of this is that there's this idea that he is the standard. But he's actually very opinionated, has some outdated info, and is very focused on powerlifting. Came here to say the same thing. And afaict even his powerlifting advice is bizarre and dated. After helping out some beginners get into lifting I'd say his program is at best a poor use of time and at worst, dangerous and encourages injury.
  - mmmrk 3y ago

Sytten 3y ago

Any people have guides on how to train with free weights + bench? I don't have space for the rack he mentions and I hate going to the gym. Is there a 5x5 equivalent?

jairuhme 3y ago
You may find something by searching YouTube. I've found that there's a wide variety to the amount of equipment needed and at worse, just pick things out of different videos based on the equipment you have
- jader201 3y ago
  Is YouTube really the best place to get medical/health guidance from? I’m sure there are some channels that are ok, but my cynical take is that most channels are there for one reason: to make money (by getting views). This is often (usually?) contradictory to giving good guidance, vs. telling people what they want to hear.
  - stinkytaco 3y ago
    I'm perhaps idealistic by saying that at least some of this time, these things can coexist. It's ok to make money doing a thing. I'm reminded of this video that makes an excellent point: https://youtu.be/x1kv3oKoZkQ?si=iehzC8H815vEtA1M https://youtu.be/x1kv3oKoZkQ?si=iehzC8H815vEtA1M Part of the problem is that most of this works. If you pick up heavy things, you will get stronger. If you're trying to differentiate yourself you'll focus on specific techniques or sports, but really, the basics are not hard: do something that's difficult and your body will adapt to improve its ability to do that thing. However, some specifics that I've found useful: Barbell Medicine - focuses on strength training, not just barbells. The Bioneer - a little lifestyle heavy, but the basic advice is sound. Alan Thrall- also barbell focused, but lots of good advice to be gleaned there, including on bodyweight. Ross Enamait - boxing focus, but bodyweight stuff. His book "Never Gymless" is good. Underground Strength Gym - an oldie, but a goodie.
  - jairuhme 3y ago

snapcaster 3y ago

It always feels like these articles never mention the "real" reasons people work out and stay motivated. It makes you super attractive! It's great to be treated so nicely by everyone (compared to how i was treated when 50 pounds heavier). It's validating to have members of your desired sex lust for you. I wish I was wise enough to be motivated by the idea that i'll be more mobile in 40 years but if i'm being honest I think the actual motivation is the validation from others

gamerDude 3y ago
That may be a reason to start, but most people that I know that consistently work out learn to enjoy it. For me, it helps me release emotions and feel more focused in the day. Being fit definitely has its social benefits in romance, but it isn't the reason I go when it's far below freezing out at 730 in the morning. Research also backs this. That the people who keep going find ways to enjoy it and not for the long term hope of losing weight or looking fit.
- toolz 3y ago
  I really wish depressed people were more in tune with just how profound resistance training is for your mental and emotional health. Instead it seems easy to dismiss weight lifting as some sort of bro-club occupied by oppressive toxic individuals (at least that was my passive opinion of it for years).
  - phil21 3y ago
    I wouldn't quite say I went so far to think it was a toxic bro-club, but I certainly did not give resistance training the consideration I should have until this past year. If I could make a single change in my life 20 years ago, it would be getting into a gym habit. I tried back then, but had both horrible trainers (the "puke and rally" bro type) and friends who didn't have a clue about what they were doing. It all seemed pointless to me unless immense effort was put in. I also worked landscape and came from a blue collar family background where working out was seen as a sign of bougieness - who needs to pay to go work out if you work hard all day? But this year (at age 42) I got a personal trainer at a local gym and started going once a week. She is great, and matches my personality and style to the workouts. I never realized how quickly and easily you can start seeing results - and that feedback loop can be quite addictive. I can't say I look forward to going into the gym now, but I at least don't dread it. Once I'm there and halfway through my routine I'm quite happy I went, and it really does impact your mood and emotional state probably much more than I even want to admit as I type this. It's hard to realize you went through most of your life ignoring such a major component of success - basically playing life on hard mode for no particular reason. The gym is also interesting in that you can be having a real shitty unproductive day - but you go in and get your routine done - and you can still feel accomplished. Bad week at work? At least you still got your 3 workouts in and are 2% stronger than last month.

Podgajski 3y ago

Ugh. Please… You know, my grandfather was thin as a stick and lived to 99 and was as sharp as a tack. Muscles need energy. When you use energy you produce waste. The waste in the muscles case is reactive oxygen species,. If you can’t clear that waste, you will become sick and fatigued and have disease. If you increase muscle mass without making sure you’re getting rid of these reactive, oxygen species Muscle mass won’t do a thing for your longevity. If you want to live longer, balance your oxidative stress.

blitz_skull 3y ago
Bro. I can’t tell if this is a joke or not. Outliers are a thing, there’s a good book on them. Your personal anecdote to your grandfather does not flip the table on all the research that clearly and definitively proves otherwise. Beyond that, resistance training DOES combat stress. C’mon man. Some counter opinions just aren’t worth voicing.
- alienicecream 3y ago
  C'mon man, dude, bro just get with the program guy.
  - blitz_skull 3y ago
    This guy gets it.
- Podgajski 3y ago
  I want you to tell me who is not an outlier on a bell curve? How flat is the bell curve? How tall is it? Aren’t really most of us outliers?
foobarbaz33 3y ago
There's always 1 person anecdotes. Monohar the body builder and early Mr. Universe winner lived to 104. Continuing to lift to the very end. I'd wager he was the most mobile centenarian ever too.

2food 3y ago

Excellent advice. It's still severely underrated by "most people", just how important strength training is to your general health and well-being. Especially as you get older.

potato24 3y ago

I actually put my feet under the couch and do sit-ups. If you are a big guy like me and can't do push ups, then you can do Knee push-ups or alternatively you can also stand between two walls at angle and push yourself away from the other wall. For heavier guys like me This is the equivalent of pushing about 20Kg. In general the higher the incline the less of your body weight you lift. If you don't have any dumbbells at home you can also fill up multiple water bottles and put them in a rather strong bag(like the eco friendly ones you buy at the store). After all 1L of water is about 1Kg. Don't forget, you must not rush the exercise. Slow make sure you keep a good form. Also if this is your first day exercising. Don't do more than 5-10 minutes. You can increase the time you exercise the next time.

stabbles 3y ago

> I also do a bit of aerobic exercices (cardio). But excessive cardio is counterproductive, leading to loss of muscle mass and potential joint issues. It's fine to do a lot of aerobic training. You almost certainly build up muscle instead of burning it; aerobic training by definition is about burning fat (not that you'll lose weight). Joint issues can be avoided by sticking to a plan that slowly increases load (e.g. < 10% distance increase per week for running) and keeping track of your heart rate (e.g. < 75% of max).

wanderingstan 3y ago
Yeah, the article went off the rails there. It’s okay to prefer weight training, but cardio is great for health too. (Including building and keeping muscle mass.)
robin-whg 3y ago
But it's not ideal. You make it harder for yourself if you want to focus on muscle mass. It's harder to be in a calorie surplus, the energy you consume gets used to restore what you lost with the cardio and you simply have less time for recovery if you want to keep the same training volume in your weight training.
- thebigspacefuck 3y ago
  I thought Attia recommends increasing your VO2max which is a function with weight as the denominator, so losing as much weight as possible while still being strong would be preferred to gaining muscle mass and being heavy.
- oarfish 3y ago
  Some base level of cardio only makes it harder to gain muscle mass if you are really short on time. I don't think it'll hinder the average person to maintain a surplus – first, you don't burn that many calories exercising as you might think, especially once you're adapted to it, and second, our food environment makes it relatively easy to increase calories if needed. I'd also challenge the idea that cardio interferes with your recovery for weight training purposes.

gniv 3y ago

I wish the article had a picture like this too: https://twitter.com/ChamberofFit/status/1688607251316056065 https://twitter.com/ChamberofFit/status/1688607251316056065

goblinux 3y ago

If you’re interested in a deeper dive, this is basically a summary of Peter Attia’s Outlive https://peterattiamd.com/outlive/ https://peterattiamd.com/outlive/ It’s a good book, I’m currently reading it now. The premise is: if you want your later years to be healthier (as thoroughly defined in the book, but covering physical and emotional wellness), you need to start early with a long term plan So far so good, I’m enjoying it

mhb 3y ago
Yes. He seems good. After hearing him on Making Sense, I tried to read the book, but it was way too much for me. Also I don't really care about his personal issues. Kudos.
- sn9 3y ago
  This book is simpler and focuses on the big levers without getting into the weeds: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B2BWSWHH?psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B2BWSWHH?psc=1
bbasketball 3y ago
Here's a summary of it for those interested: https://littlerbooks.com/summary/outlive https://littlerbooks.com/summary/outlive

mhb 3y ago

Looks like the basic ideas are right, but Attia seems a lot more thorough: https://peterattiamd.com/about/ https://peterattiamd.com/about/ Summary: Eat 1g of protein per pound of body weight Creatine seems good on the margin and there's no downside to it. Resistance training and cardio are both very important and you should probably be doing significantly more than is comfortable. Sugar in moderation isn't as big a problem as it is made out to be. Alcohol has no benefit and is harmful, to some extent, but Attia still drinks it.

H1Supreme 3y ago
> Eat 1g of protein per pound of body weight I believe it's 1g per pound of "lean" body mass.
- gradys 3y ago
  There are many different rules of thumb on this floating around. 1g per lb of body weight is indeed something a number of well informed people recommend, but those people generally acknowledge that it’s something like an upper bound on the amount that is useful.
a12k 3y ago
Can you share a source for your summary? It's not in the link you provided and I don't see anything searching Peter's site directly on point (though may be contained in podcast episodes or something).
- bbasketball 3y ago
  It's from his book Outlive. Here's a summary of it. https://littlerbooks.com/summary/outlive https://littlerbooks.com/summary/outlive
- mhb 3y ago
  I listened to him on this podcast and then attempted to follow up by reading the book, but the book (Outlive) was way too much for me. https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/making-sense-episodes/328-health-longevity https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/making-sense-episodes/328...

richardvsu 3y ago

I would highly recommend Olympic weightlifting as a form of resistance training for those who are inspired by technical challenges. https://books.google.com/books/about/Science_and_Practice_of_Strength_Trainin.html?id=3v3FDwAAQBAJ https://books.google.com/books/about/Science_and_Practice_of...

kayg04 3y ago

Stronglifts 5x5 is simply a terrible program to start. Pick a frequency you can adhere to over the long course of time, be it 2x - 6x a week, and stick to the basics. Don't try to lift ultra heavy on day 1 and btw, you don't need to lift heavy to build muscle. If you are looking to start, huge shoutout to Dr. Mike from Renaissance Periodisation and Dr. Milo from Wolf Coaching. Both of their YouTube channels are excellent and set you up for the long-term.

mattgreenrocks 3y ago
I had trouble with 5x5 when starting out. It was billed as simple and foolproof, but my form was lacking. I am hyper-mobile, so this means I really have to train proprioception, and probably not make the most gains in the shortest amount of time. This is something I didn't know I didn't know, and I had to learn the hard way. It doesn't mean 5x5 is bad, it just didn't fit for me when starting out initially. Lifting forums have a tendency towards the idea that, "you aren't special, just do these things" because they have a lot of people descend upon them with too many questions. But sometimes things aren't working, and you need to adjust.
- kayg04 3y ago
  Mate, 5x5 isn't even what you would do to make the most gains possible. The amount of pump / soreness / disruption / metabolite sequestration you get with your 5RM is... very very low. It will certainly make you stronger but it won't grow you a lot of muscle. > But sometimes things aren't working, and you need to adjust. Absolutely. Dogmatic approaches to training doesn't work very well. Listening to your body and adapting does.
  - mattgreenrocks 3y ago
    What programs do you like for hypertrophy? At this point I'm mostly interested in that, I mostly need functional strength.
    - kayg04 3y ago

dkarl 3y ago

A lot of things have sold me on the value of weight training for size and strength, but watching my parents decline physically has been the biggest. I don't think they understood how close they were to losing the ability to enjoy specific activities. They thought of weight training as kind of a meathead thing, something you do to belong to a meathead tribe, and they couldn't see why I would do it since 1) they raised me to value intellect over physicality, and 2) there's no way I could ever enjoy the benefits of being perceived as a meathead, since our genetics didn't allow for it. My efforts to get them to see it as a practical means for improving their lives went nowhere, until my mom realized she was having trouble stepping up onto curbs. Now she works with a trainer once a week, and she's thinking doing it twice a week since once isn't killing her. Better late than never.

raynr 3y ago

I exercise to maintain healthspan and keep fit, but I am by no means "fit" by the standards of people who are fit. I've seen what strong looks like (I'm not very big, at the oly gym I used to frequent I saw someone my height and weight bench > 3 plates at a meet), I've seen what performance endurance in a run, cycle, and swim looks like, and I've also seen what the vast majority of people at my office are like. The author has some great reasons to grow and keep big muscles, but I have some thoughts to add for that "majority of people at the office" crowd. Thought #1: there is one item that the author mentions that I think is absolutely critical yet buried all the way at the bottom. > If you’re over 30 (or even in your 20s and able to afford it), hire a personal trainer to start. They can check your form and avoid any kind of injuries. With weights, it is really easy to get a bad form, no matter how many youtube videos you watch. I went to see a Physiotherapist 4 years after I started squats, and this is the best thing I’ve ever done. She retaught me everything I think I knew about squatting. I cannot over-emphasise how important it is to focus on form so you avoid injuries. When you're older, hurting yourself will knock you off the exercise horse for years. Also, note that if you're in your 30s and have been mostly sedentary your adult life, the squat and deadlift may not even be movements that you have the range of motion to do. Don't fall into the trap of pushing yourself because the program said so or the internet said so or because you feel inadequate next to the huge gains that people are showing off on the internet. There is absolutely no shame in taking things slower. Remember your goal is not to look good naked on the beach next summer, it is to maintain healthspan into your 70s. Thought #2: cardio is important, the author's warning about "too much cardio because your joints will give out and you will lose muscle" is really odd and feels like I'm browsing /r/fitness in 2010. If you're very concerned about your joints, do something lower impact, like swim or cycle or row or the elliptical. But do take your rest days. Thought #3: stronglifts 5x5 is great if you're in your 20s or your early 30s. If you're older than that, well, you can still do it but please be careful. See thought #1 above.

AtlasBarfed 3y ago
The lifting crowd hates cardio people. Because they are skinny wimpy girly men in their mainstream values... Yes it is that dumb, it is SNL skit. It's actually a really good filter. Keep those people at arms length. The ones that don't have that attitude are the ones with positive balance aren't headed for the steroid slope. Lifting is something that you should do with yoga or Pilates, swimming, some running and biking all in the mix. Because you get benefits from all of them. The best starting workout for people imo is you lift 3 exercises, one set each to about 10-15 reps, then do 5 minutes of cardio between them. Do that cycle 4 times. You'll get 20 minutes of cardio and 12 different exercises. Make sure 2-3 of the motions are lower body.

giantg2 3y ago

The title is very misleading. Most of the research given is about exercise, and including some level of strength training, being an overall health benefit. The research does not necessarily support higher body mass (eg big muscles) being beneficial or even necessary. Higher muscle mass can actually be a detriment to things like joint, heart, and kidney health. What matters is exercise that includes some strength training. Training for healthy strength (includes stamina, complex movement, etc and not just max weight) should be the focus over building mass. There are even studies showing that measures like grip strength matter most in relation to body mass - meaning strength to mass ratio matters. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6778477/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6778477/

mharig 3y ago
Weight lifting trains too few muscles. Do Calisthenics instead. It has the further advantages that you can do it at near every place you like, and it costs next to nothin'.

oarfish 3y ago

While this article has the right message, there are some things that stand out as odd > If you’re over 30 (or even in your 20s and able to afford it), hire a personal trainer to start. They can check your form and avoid any kind of injuries. With weights, it is really easy to get a bad form, no matter how many youtube videos you watch. I went to see a Physiotherapist 4 years after I started squats, and this is the best thing I’ve ever done. She retaught me everything I think I knew about squatting. This seems to suggest that "bad form" (which has no clear definition) would be a reliable source of injury, which it isn't. People like to harp on this because they've had a bad experience, but it's not a scientific fact that you have to move in some particular way to avoid injury. Don't let the absence of a personal trainer stop you from investing in your health. > But excessive cardio is counterproductive, leading to loss of muscle mass and potential joint issues. Such an incredible claim would need substantial evidence. As long as we are not talking about extreme exercise volumes, I call bullshit on this one. --- I see a lot of in humble opinion uninformed comments in this thread. I believe the hackers here might be interested in barbell medicine [1], they have a podcast [2] that has way more info than one might ever want on health and training-related topics. I also feel it's a great innoculator against bullshit, which feels to be the majority of content about fitness these days. 1. https://www.barbellmedicine.com/articles/ https://www.barbellmedicine.com/articles/ 2. https://open.spotify.com/show/3orDJTthUjwYdSPTSKuyZP https://open.spotify.com/show/3orDJTthUjwYdSPTSKuyZP

jstummbillig 3y ago

I have been doing fairly advanced body-weight only stuff for the last couple of years. I really, really want to a) work out from home and b) not buy any big equipment, particularly barbells, but I have gotten around to believe(?) that I might benefit from adding weights to my training. Realistically, am I kidding myself that I will be fine without barbells? I would be fine with adding dumbbells and kettlebells at any weight. Does this work? My goals pretty much align with the idea around this article: I want to stay healthy, long. I do not want to injure myself. Looks are of no concern to me. I understand that workouts are a topic with strong opinions. If you are into barbells you probably also do it because you believe it's necessary. Given a level response on this might not be simple but it would be much appreciated

darkerside 3y ago
Nothing will train sheer strength like a barbell. There's just no other easy way to force your body to move that amount of weight.
- jstummbillig 3y ago
  Why would (unsupported) single leg squats, or one arm push-ups or pull-ups (maybe with an additional weight vest or some weight) not work? I feel the math could be made to look equivalent and, just observationally, I don't think a lot of people are ablke to do single anything so there should be plenty room to grow? As far as I am able to tell without having done any, barbells are "simpler" because you can scale them fairly smoothly.
  - darkerside 3y ago
    You just aren't moving the same amount of weight with those exercises. If I'm squatting 300 pounds, while most of the time the weight is distributed, there will be moments where one of my legs is balancing close to 300 pounds. There will be no moment anywhere close to that with a single leg pistol or skater squat. Those are great exercises, but you'll get a different outcome IMO.
3y ago

fuzzfactor 3y ago

I would say it's more like good reasons to not be inactive, too thin or overweight.