5 ms·

The marketing around this is will win the best newspeak of 2024 - the pharmaceutical companies are making it sound like they're selling it at this price out of

by grecy 3y ago

The marketing around this is will win the best newspeak of 2024 - the pharmaceutical companies are making it sound like they're selling it at this price out of the kindness of their hearts. No mention of the decades of price gouging and the new laws to put a stop to it.

sneak 3y ago
They were only price gouging before because of other bad laws that prevented others from producing it and selling it at lower prices. The state created their monopoly.
- nradov 3y ago
  Which specific laws are you referring to? Older formulations of insulin have been out of patent for many years, so in principle any company can produce generics for sale at lower prices. It can be expensive for generics manufacturers to get through the FDA certification process.
  - andsoitis 3y ago
    > any company can produce generics for sale at lower prices Which maybe explains precisely why we don’t see it happen: race to the bottom on pricing means reduced profitability. Why would you sign up your company to make less money?
    - nradov 3y ago
      There are a lot of companies producing generic drugs. Teva alone sold $9B worth in 2021. https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/top-10-generic-drugmakers-2021-revenue https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/top-10-generic-drugmaker...
      - andsoitis 3y ago
        > There are a lot of companies producing generic drugs. Teva alone sold $9B worth in 2021. Yes! Note though that I'm not claiming a company cannot make money from producing generics. But the question remains: why isn't some generic drug company then producing and making a killing (because they could underprice) in the insulin market? I think my original argument is the most likely reason, but I'm open to a stronger argument.
        nradov 3y ago
        Eli Lilly and Novo Nordisk are now producing generic insulins. https://www.goodrx.com/healthcare-access/research/how-much-does-insulin-cost-compare-brands#generics-and-biosimilars https://www.goodrx.com/healthcare-access/research/how-much-d...
  - sneak 3y ago
    Obviously: the ones that require expensive certifications to make and sell drugs, the reason that there are only a few brands’ products for sale. There are lots of people who would happily produce insulin and undercut the existing prices, but the pharmaceutical industry pays a lot of money to keep the barriers to entry in place.
- fuzzylightbulb 3y ago
  "it's not our fault, we had to price gouge" Yeah no. There is no benign justification for the three main insulin manufacturers raising prices in lockstep like the cartel they are.
- refurb 3y ago
  Actually, the price of insulin has be going down over time, not up for insured patients. But due to the bizarre regulatory system around healthcare in the US, manufacturers were incentivized to increase the list price (public price) all the while dropping the net price (confidential negotiated price with insurers). This graph halfway down this page sums it up nicely: https://www.drugchannels.net/2020/08/five-top-drugmakers-reveal-list-vs-net.html https://www.drugchannels.net/2020/08/five-top-drugmakers-rev...
  - Ekaros 3y ago
    Seems like lot in USA healthcare could be solved if it was mandated that everyone must get the lowest net price, plus at most some unreasonable margin like 100%.
    - refurb 3y ago
      Interestingly the government tried something similar - out of all the negotiated prices for private insurance, the government has to get the best one. Good idea right? Well it ended up raising prices. Because companies were happy to tell a small insurer with a good price "too bad" so they didn't have to take a massive hit on their government account.
fuzzylightbulb 3y ago
For real. It's like if outlets were writing stories praising generous employers for paying the minimum wage permitted by law. This 100% happened because of the Biden Administration got the Inflation Reduction Act passed, which has resulted in a cap on the price of insulin for Medicare beneficiaries by allowing the government to negotiate the price of certain drugs.
- LargeTomato 3y ago
  People remain deeply ill informed about the IRA because the media doesn't cover it at all. Normal Americans can't make an informed decision about what's going on if no one is telling them. It's very disappointing.
LargeTomato 3y ago
CNN is making it sound like that. CNN's journalistic integrity compels them to explain that to us. Instead, CNN gives big pharma a nice little PR boost by burying the lede.

by grecy 3y ago

sneak 3y ago

They were only price gouging before because of other bad laws that prevented others from producing it and selling it at lower prices. The state created their monopoly.

nradov 3y ago
Which specific laws are you referring to? Older formulations of insulin have been out of patent for many years, so in principle any company can produce generics for sale at lower prices. It can be expensive for generics manufacturers to get through the FDA certification process.
- andsoitis 3y ago
  > any company can produce generics for sale at lower prices Which maybe explains precisely why we don’t see it happen: race to the bottom on pricing means reduced profitability. Why would you sign up your company to make less money?
  - nradov 3y ago
    There are a lot of companies producing generic drugs. Teva alone sold $9B worth in 2021. https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/top-10-generic-drugmakers-2021-revenue https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/top-10-generic-drugmaker...
    - andsoitis 3y ago
      > There are a lot of companies producing generic drugs. Teva alone sold $9B worth in 2021. Yes! Note though that I'm not claiming a company cannot make money from producing generics. But the question remains: why isn't some generic drug company then producing and making a killing (because they could underprice) in the insulin market? I think my original argument is the most likely reason, but I'm open to a stronger argument.
      - nradov 3y ago
        Eli Lilly and Novo Nordisk are now producing generic insulins. https://www.goodrx.com/healthcare-access/research/how-much-does-insulin-cost-compare-brands#generics-and-biosimilars https://www.goodrx.com/healthcare-access/research/how-much-d...
- sneak 3y ago
  Obviously: the ones that require expensive certifications to make and sell drugs, the reason that there are only a few brands’ products for sale. There are lots of people who would happily produce insulin and undercut the existing prices, but the pharmaceutical industry pays a lot of money to keep the barriers to entry in place.
fuzzylightbulb 3y ago
"it's not our fault, we had to price gouge" Yeah no. There is no benign justification for the three main insulin manufacturers raising prices in lockstep like the cartel they are.
refurb 3y ago
Actually, the price of insulin has be going down over time, not up for insured patients. But due to the bizarre regulatory system around healthcare in the US, manufacturers were incentivized to increase the list price (public price) all the while dropping the net price (confidential negotiated price with insurers). This graph halfway down this page sums it up nicely: https://www.drugchannels.net/2020/08/five-top-drugmakers-reveal-list-vs-net.html https://www.drugchannels.net/2020/08/five-top-drugmakers-rev...
- Ekaros 3y ago
  Seems like lot in USA healthcare could be solved if it was mandated that everyone must get the lowest net price, plus at most some unreasonable margin like 100%.
  - refurb 3y ago
    Interestingly the government tried something similar - out of all the negotiated prices for private insurance, the government has to get the best one. Good idea right? Well it ended up raising prices. Because companies were happy to tell a small insurer with a good price "too bad" so they didn't have to take a massive hit on their government account.

fuzzylightbulb 3y ago

For real. It's like if outlets were writing stories praising generous employers for paying the minimum wage permitted by law. This 100% happened because of the Biden Administration got the Inflation Reduction Act passed, which has resulted in a cap on the price of insulin for Medicare beneficiaries by allowing the government to negotiate the price of certain drugs.

LargeTomato 3y ago
People remain deeply ill informed about the IRA because the media doesn't cover it at all. Normal Americans can't make an informed decision about what's going on if no one is telling them. It's very disappointing.

LargeTomato 3y ago

CNN is making it sound like that. CNN's journalistic integrity compels them to explain that to us. Instead, CNN gives big pharma a nice little PR boost by burying the lede.