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From the River to the Sea is usually said in the context of Palestinian liberation, Israeli occupation or zionism, so applying the same logic it seems to affirm

From the River to the Sea is usually said in the context of Palestinian liberation, Israeli occupation or zionism, so applying the same logic it seems to affirm Palestinian liberation and decolonization or deny or nullify zionism. Doesn’t really sound like a dog whistle in that context. Wikipedia seems to agree with my assessment: > All Lives Matter is a slogan that was created as a negative response to the Black Lives Matter movement. It is a conservative rejection of the acknowledgement of police brutality and ethnic violence that is the purpose of the Black Lives Matter movement. > "From the river to the sea" (Arabic: من النهر إلى البحر, romanized: min an-nahr ʾilā l-baḥr; Palestinian Arabic: من المية للمية, romanized: min il-ṃayye la-l-ṃayye, lit. 'from the water to the water') is a political slogan that refers geographically to the area between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, an area described as Palestine, which today includes Israel and the Israeli-occupied Palestinian territories, including the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip. > Palestinian progressives use the phrase to call for a united democracy over the whole territory while others say "it's a call for peace and equality after ... decades-long, open-ended Israeli military rule over millions of Palestinians." Even the Hamas charter is pretty explicit about what it means (where the context is obvious): > Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea [...] along the lines of the 4th of June 1967 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Lives_Matter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Lives_Matter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_the_river_to_the_sea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_the_river_to_the_sea

dekhn 3y ago
This is one of those cases where wikipedia is not a useful reference.
haberman 3y ago
It sounds like you are saying that it is cancellation-worthy to be aligned with an American conservative position, but normal and acceptable political expression to be aligned with Hamas. Is that your position?
gruez 3y ago
>> All Lives Matter is a slogan that was created as a negative response to the Black Lives Matter movement. It is a conservative rejection of the acknowledgement of police brutality and ethnic violence that is the purpose of the Black Lives Matter movement. >> "From the river to the sea" (Arabic: من النهر إلى البحر, romanized: min an-nahr ʾilā l-baḥr; Palestinian Arabic: من المية للمية, romanized: min il-ṃayye la-l-ṃayye, lit. 'from the water to the water') is a political slogan that refers geographically to the area between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, an area described as Palestine, which today includes Israel and the Israeli-occupied Palestinian territories, including the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip. I can think of opposite interpretations of both examples. For instance, "all lives matter" is to be taken literally to be an inclusive declaration of equal treatment under the law, or "from the river to the sea" calls for ejection of jews from region. How do you arbitrate between them, without relying on an authority like wikipedia?
- runarberg 3y ago
  By listening to the context in which they are said. The Wikipedia quotes were simply to reaffirm the context in which both phrases are most likely to be used in. “All lives matter” is most likely to be used as a reaction to the Black Lives Matter movement. While “From the river to the sea” is most likely to be used in the context of Palestinian Liberation (sorry I’m repeating my self).
- SauciestGNU 3y ago
  "From the river to the sea" has nothing to do with expulsion and everything to do with an end to militarily-enforced apartheid. It's highly disingenuous to continue to affirm that this slogan is genocidal when it simply isn't. Astonishingly bad faith when the people saying it are telling you exactly what they mean by it, and it's not mass expulsion or genocide, but equal treatment under the law and a respect for human rights.
  - eli_gottlieb 3y ago
    The Arabic original of the slogan is, "min el-mayeh lil-mayeh, Falastin Arabiyeh" or in English "from the water to the water, an Arab Palestine". It's a clearly nationalistic slogan that goes well beyond equal treatment under law or human rights.

dekhn 3y ago

This is one of those cases where wikipedia is not a useful reference.

haberman 3y ago

It sounds like you are saying that it is cancellation-worthy to be aligned with an American conservative position, but normal and acceptable political expression to be aligned with Hamas. Is that your position?

gruez 3y ago

>> All Lives Matter is a slogan that was created as a negative response to the Black Lives Matter movement. It is a conservative rejection of the acknowledgement of police brutality and ethnic violence that is the purpose of the Black Lives Matter movement. >> "From the river to the sea" (Arabic: من النهر إلى البحر, romanized: min an-nahr ʾilā l-baḥr; Palestinian Arabic: من المية للمية, romanized: min il-ṃayye la-l-ṃayye, lit. 'from the water to the water') is a political slogan that refers geographically to the area between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, an area described as Palestine, which today includes Israel and the Israeli-occupied Palestinian territories, including the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip. I can think of opposite interpretations of both examples. For instance, "all lives matter" is to be taken literally to be an inclusive declaration of equal treatment under the law, or "from the river to the sea" calls for ejection of jews from region. How do you arbitrate between them, without relying on an authority like wikipedia?

runarberg 3y ago
By listening to the context in which they are said. The Wikipedia quotes were simply to reaffirm the context in which both phrases are most likely to be used in. “All lives matter” is most likely to be used as a reaction to the Black Lives Matter movement. While “From the river to the sea” is most likely to be used in the context of Palestinian Liberation (sorry I’m repeating my self).
SauciestGNU 3y ago
"From the river to the sea" has nothing to do with expulsion and everything to do with an end to militarily-enforced apartheid. It's highly disingenuous to continue to affirm that this slogan is genocidal when it simply isn't. Astonishingly bad faith when the people saying it are telling you exactly what they mean by it, and it's not mass expulsion or genocide, but equal treatment under the law and a respect for human rights.
- eli_gottlieb 3y ago
  The Arabic original of the slogan is, "min el-mayeh lil-mayeh, Falastin Arabiyeh" or in English "from the water to the water, an Arab Palestine". It's a clearly nationalistic slogan that goes well beyond equal treatment under law or human rights.