4 ms·

The reality is that in so many countries is that it is too expensive to have more kids than 1 or 2. You have both parents working, living in an expensive place,

by xt00 3y ago

The reality is that in so many countries is that it is too expensive to have more kids than 1 or 2. You have both parents working, living in an expensive place, paying for day care, buying a bigger car, etc.. you end up needing to be well above middle class to actually afford 3-4 kids.. then when you factor in university, then you basically need to win the lottery or your kids end up with tons of debt. And in many cities in China you effectively are an immigrant in your own country trying to become a resident where you can access the cities better healthcare system and schools etc.. so people have a big incentive to want to live in the bigger more expensive cities. (Which ends up making it more likely people will have fewer kids)

JoeAltmaier 3y ago
I like to say, one kid is amateur. Two is professional. Three is at Master's level. You have two hands in a parking lot. Two parents. Two sides on the sofa when reading. Two fit in the back seat. Three, you need entirely new solutions for all that. And the cost goes up drastically.
- Kon-Peki 3y ago
  Unless you've got triplets or twins + 1, three kids is a lot easier than two. They help each other out, work together, look out for each other, etc. Some things are drastically more expensive, others are negligible. What annoys me the most is that most 5-passenger vehicles these days are actually just 4-passenger vehicles with an emergency-use-only 5th seatbelt. You're "supposed" to buy the 3-row 7/8 passenger SUV/Van. But then you have no cargo space because the third row seats aren't folded down.
  - throwaway60720 3y ago
    What's wrong with Ford Galaxy, Volkswagen Touran or Sharan, Seat Alhambra ...?
    - Kon-Peki 3y ago
      Non-availability in the USA would be the main issue. But even then, those cars are fairly narrow and quickly become uncomfortable when your kids get older. It's crazy, but a Ford F150 SuperCrew has pretty much the perfect passenger space; if only they would put something like that in a two-row wagon format.
      - throwaway60720 3y ago
        I spent my childhood (as the oldest child of 3) in Ford Mondeo and later Renault Grand Scenic. Both were OK. Ford Galaxy is used as taxi in my city, it's great - it's wide enough to comfortably drive 5 adults.
- marssaxman 3y ago
  Note that the difficulty curve is logistic, not exponential, because you are creating your own labor pool; older kids not only learn to take care of themselves, but can also be prevailed upon to look after their younger siblings. There is an ultimate ceiling to the labor involved, because your oldest eventually move out; my parents raised eleven children, but the most they had in the house at once was nine.
  - JoeAltmaier 3y ago
    Our rural neighbor had 13. Dad asked, how did you manage? She said When they get to 6 years old they can help.
- sam345 3y ago
  With commitment, sacrifice, and ingenuity people do a good job of making more happen. Four and more are harder but very doable. Children are gifts that give back way more than they require. As a society we will be in very bad shape when we are old or needy and there are no children or siblings to care for us.
iwontberude 3y ago
In the US a huge percentage of kids are raised by single parents, who some were also raised by single parents, and these families have no wealth and they are just another child away from destitution. It's actually so common you see AITA reddit threads about single parent grandmas are conflicted on how to support their single parent daughter and grandchildren and leads to all sorts of social problems. I come from a single parent household and it's clear to me what is lost by only having one half of your familial network available to you. It means your single parent has much less accountability in how they treat you and you have no where to branch out from your family if the only parent you have has an abusive or very small family.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Indeed, these are traps people are trying to get out of. Poverty is bad, being stuck with a kid for at least 18 years in poverty is worse. Avoid the gravity well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InYuJXzdAUI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InYuJXzdAUI ("Children in an Era of Hyper Individuality and Late Stage Capitalism") (also come from a single parent household, escaped the gravity well)
Log_out_ 3y ago
The old have colonialized the youth and the pension funds eat the children.
shrimp_emoji 3y ago
Nope nope nope. People just don't want to have kids. Period. Because it sucks. People had kids in the past because they had less contraceptives and alternatives. With those things, the universal revealed preference is to not have kids. Biological Ponzi scheme? Always has been. Raising asexual transhumans in pods (artificial wombs) in government facilities is the way forward.

by xt00 3y ago

JoeAltmaier 3y ago

I like to say, one kid is amateur. Two is professional. Three is at Master's level. You have two hands in a parking lot. Two parents. Two sides on the sofa when reading. Two fit in the back seat. Three, you need entirely new solutions for all that. And the cost goes up drastically.

Kon-Peki 3y ago
Unless you've got triplets or twins + 1, three kids is a lot easier than two. They help each other out, work together, look out for each other, etc. Some things are drastically more expensive, others are negligible. What annoys me the most is that most 5-passenger vehicles these days are actually just 4-passenger vehicles with an emergency-use-only 5th seatbelt. You're "supposed" to buy the 3-row 7/8 passenger SUV/Van. But then you have no cargo space because the third row seats aren't folded down.
- throwaway60720 3y ago
  What's wrong with Ford Galaxy, Volkswagen Touran or Sharan, Seat Alhambra ...?
  - Kon-Peki 3y ago
    Non-availability in the USA would be the main issue. But even then, those cars are fairly narrow and quickly become uncomfortable when your kids get older. It's crazy, but a Ford F150 SuperCrew has pretty much the perfect passenger space; if only they would put something like that in a two-row wagon format.
    - throwaway60720 3y ago
      I spent my childhood (as the oldest child of 3) in Ford Mondeo and later Renault Grand Scenic. Both were OK. Ford Galaxy is used as taxi in my city, it's great - it's wide enough to comfortably drive 5 adults.
marssaxman 3y ago
Note that the difficulty curve is logistic, not exponential, because you are creating your own labor pool; older kids not only learn to take care of themselves, but can also be prevailed upon to look after their younger siblings. There is an ultimate ceiling to the labor involved, because your oldest eventually move out; my parents raised eleven children, but the most they had in the house at once was nine.
- JoeAltmaier 3y ago
  Our rural neighbor had 13. Dad asked, how did you manage? She said When they get to 6 years old they can help.
sam345 3y ago
With commitment, sacrifice, and ingenuity people do a good job of making more happen. Four and more are harder but very doable. Children are gifts that give back way more than they require. As a society we will be in very bad shape when we are old or needy and there are no children or siblings to care for us.

iwontberude 3y ago

In the US a huge percentage of kids are raised by single parents, who some were also raised by single parents, and these families have no wealth and they are just another child away from destitution. It's actually so common you see AITA reddit threads about single parent grandmas are conflicted on how to support their single parent daughter and grandchildren and leads to all sorts of social problems. I come from a single parent household and it's clear to me what is lost by only having one half of your familial network available to you. It means your single parent has much less accountability in how they treat you and you have no where to branch out from your family if the only parent you have has an abusive or very small family.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
Indeed, these are traps people are trying to get out of. Poverty is bad, being stuck with a kid for at least 18 years in poverty is worse. Avoid the gravity well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InYuJXzdAUI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InYuJXzdAUI ("Children in an Era of Hyper Individuality and Late Stage Capitalism") (also come from a single parent household, escaped the gravity well)

Log_out_ 3y ago

The old have colonialized the youth and the pension funds eat the children.

shrimp_emoji 3y ago

Nope nope nope. People just don't want to have kids. Period. Because it sucks. People had kids in the past because they had less contraceptives and alternatives. With those things, the universal revealed preference is to not have kids. Biological Ponzi scheme? Always has been. Raising asexual transhumans in pods (artificial wombs) in government facilities is the way forward.