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https://kashmirlife.net/late-marriages-a-biologically-disastrous-92315/ https://kashmirlife.net/late-marriages-a-biologically-disast... https://www.researchgat

https://kashmirlife.net/late-marriages-a-biologically-disastrous-92315/ https://kashmirlife.net/late-marriages-a-biologically-disast... https://www.researchgate.net/publication/358646699_A_study_on_the_perils_of_late_marriages_in_Kashmir_Valley_Causes_and_Consequences https://www.researchgate.net/publication/358646699_A_study_o... Some research from my corner of the world. Read how religious insistence on no sex before marriage and shift towards being "financially stable " means young people have no option but to wait. To make matters worse, PCOD stats in the region are like 15-26% of female population so thats an additional penalty.

alephnerd 3y ago
My extended family is from Jammu and Himachal, and marriages are later as well there, but that can largely be attributed to people concentrating more so on careers. I wouldn't be surprised if a similar trend is happening in Kashmir Valley as well, given that living standards there have tended to be higher than most of India. > insistence on no sex before marriage and shift towards being "financially stable " means young people have no option but to wait Or move to Chandigarh/Delhi like everyone in HP, JK, and PB Such is the middle income trap
- mavelikara 3y ago
  Both J&K and HP have < 950 sex ratios - possibly due to selective abortions. This will also affect the ability for men to find brides.
  - 2Gkashmiri 3y ago
    selective abortions are banned. at least in jk where i am from. anecdata but i have a relative who had 4 daughters before 1 son. in total he has 5 children.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    > possibly due to selective abortions Young Families in HP tend to try to have at most 2 kids. If they get a boy in the first try, they generally won't try for another [0]. I can safely say it's a similar story in Jammu, but I can't speak for Kashmir. Kerala (where you appear to be from) actually has a worse Sex Ratio than JK [1]. Us Northies (at least DL/PB/HR/HP/JK/CH) have roughly comparable social indicators to Kerala, despite much more social strife. [0] - https://m.tribuneindia.com/news/himachal/low-sex-ratio-at-birth-extremely-worrisome-343297 https://m.tribuneindia.com/news/himachal/low-sex-ratio-at-bi... [1] - https://pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=1782601 https://pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=1782601
    - mavelikara 3y ago
      I don't want this to be about Kerala. You are right - there was a sharp decline (1047->951) in Kerala's sex ratio at birth between NFHS-5 and NFHS-4 [1]. The overall sex ratio of Kerala is still high at 1049 [2], but the leading indicators do not look good. Meantime, J&K saw a commendable increase in sex ratio at birth 923->976 [1]. HP is one of the 3 states where the sex ratio at birth is now < 900 (875) [1]. So, I am not convinced that you can group J&K and HP to share a similar narrative when it comes to young babies born in the recent past. But they do share similar numbers when it comes to adults. J&K has only 889 females per 1000 males [3], and HP has 972 [4]. Hence my original comment - for adult men trying to find mates, both states will likely have a deficit of women. (I was wrong about HP sex ratio being less than 950, though - mea culpa). [1]: https://prsindia.org/policy/vital-stats/national-family-health-survey-5 https://prsindia.org/policy/vital-stats/national-family-heal... [2]: http://rchiips.org/nfhs/NFHS-5_FCTS/Kerala.pdf http://rchiips.org/nfhs/NFHS-5_FCTS/Kerala.pdf [3]: http://www.jkslbc.com/StateProfile.php http://www.jkslbc.com/StateProfile.php [4]: https://nhm.hp.gov.in/demographic-profile https://nhm.hp.gov.in/demographic-profile
      - alephnerd 3y ago
        Ethnically and culturally, Jammu (not Kashmir), HP, and Uttarakhand are closely connected (Lower Himachal with Jammu and Upper Himachal with Uttarakhand). The fact that JK and Uttarakhand both have a high sex ratio but HP's fell is hard to square, especially when factoring that HP's overall sex ratio is also at 1040. A drop to 875 in less than a generation is very weird. > adult men trying to find mates, both states will likely have a deficit of womem For Paharis (not Kashmiris), marriage has to be exogamous. A Mandeali basically cannot marry another Mandeali - you'll have to marry out to another valley otherwise it's incest. That's how Pahari communities/biradaris traditionally spread from Manshera to Garhwal. > I don't want this to be about Kerala Fair. Just overly defensive because some South Indians have recently gotten a bit chauvinistic about "North Indians".
nonethewiser 3y ago
Am I supposed to believe teens not having sex is bad? By all means kids should be educated on sex and have access to contraceptive. But I thought everyone still agreed abstinence was the ideal. Edit: I misunderstood the age range in the article (18-30, thought it was younger). My comment doesnt really apply then.
- ethbr1 3y ago
  I don't agree on that. If they're doing it safely, more power to them. There's no line around sex that makes it different than other things.
  - nonethewiser 3y ago
    I initially thought we were talking about a lower age range than the 18-30 in the article. Which age range do you have in mind? Even at 18-30 I don't think a decline is inherently bad. I think it entirely depends on the reason. Are men becoming less socialized? More addicted to porn? Sure, thats bad. Are they being more mindful of who they have sex with? Good. Are a smaller share of men having a larger percentage of sex? Hard to make a ruling on that one.
    - ethbr1 3y ago
      With partners of similar ages? That's their business. Kids mature at different rates.
      - nonethewiser 3y ago
        Really? More power to kids of ANY similar age having sex with each other?
        xwolfi 3y ago
        What are you trying to make him say? First, sex is not the only thing kids do earlier than 18: kissing and fondling, we did at various ages and it's I think normal and quite harmless. It s not like teenagers will wait for their 18th birthday at noon to start thinking about it. But that means nothing special: ofc consent is priority and I agree consent is hard to give in full awareness before 16 and assumed automatically after 18 (since that s the definition of majority: your decisions become your responsibility). I think we need to be a bit honest that between 16 and 18 there s a grey area where kids experiment and instead of saying they shouldnt and hide our head in the sand, we could maybe focus on guiding them towards safe practice just in case. I kissed my first girlfriend at 14, had my first blowjob at 17, and first penetration at 19: it's a slow progress to maturity and not once my age mattered to me, it was completely irrelevant and we just discovered it slowly all together. No one seemed to have been harmed. But I can def accept stricter enforcement before 16 just because it s really really hard to make sure they understand what they consent to.

alephnerd 3y ago

My extended family is from Jammu and Himachal, and marriages are later as well there, but that can largely be attributed to people concentrating more so on careers. I wouldn't be surprised if a similar trend is happening in Kashmir Valley as well, given that living standards there have tended to be higher than most of India. > insistence on no sex before marriage and shift towards being "financially stable " means young people have no option but to wait Or move to Chandigarh/Delhi like everyone in HP, JK, and PB Such is the middle income trap

mavelikara 3y ago
Both J&K and HP have < 950 sex ratios - possibly due to selective abortions. This will also affect the ability for men to find brides.
- 2Gkashmiri 3y ago
  selective abortions are banned. at least in jk where i am from. anecdata but i have a relative who had 4 daughters before 1 son. in total he has 5 children.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- alephnerd 3y ago
  > possibly due to selective abortions Young Families in HP tend to try to have at most 2 kids. If they get a boy in the first try, they generally won't try for another [0]. I can safely say it's a similar story in Jammu, but I can't speak for Kashmir. Kerala (where you appear to be from) actually has a worse Sex Ratio than JK [1]. Us Northies (at least DL/PB/HR/HP/JK/CH) have roughly comparable social indicators to Kerala, despite much more social strife. [0] - https://m.tribuneindia.com/news/himachal/low-sex-ratio-at-birth-extremely-worrisome-343297 https://m.tribuneindia.com/news/himachal/low-sex-ratio-at-bi... [1] - https://pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=1782601 https://pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=1782601
  - mavelikara 3y ago
    I don't want this to be about Kerala. You are right - there was a sharp decline (1047->951) in Kerala's sex ratio at birth between NFHS-5 and NFHS-4 [1]. The overall sex ratio of Kerala is still high at 1049 [2], but the leading indicators do not look good. Meantime, J&K saw a commendable increase in sex ratio at birth 923->976 [1]. HP is one of the 3 states where the sex ratio at birth is now < 900 (875) [1]. So, I am not convinced that you can group J&K and HP to share a similar narrative when it comes to young babies born in the recent past. But they do share similar numbers when it comes to adults. J&K has only 889 females per 1000 males [3], and HP has 972 [4]. Hence my original comment - for adult men trying to find mates, both states will likely have a deficit of women. (I was wrong about HP sex ratio being less than 950, though - mea culpa). [1]: https://prsindia.org/policy/vital-stats/national-family-health-survey-5 https://prsindia.org/policy/vital-stats/national-family-heal... [2]: http://rchiips.org/nfhs/NFHS-5_FCTS/Kerala.pdf http://rchiips.org/nfhs/NFHS-5_FCTS/Kerala.pdf [3]: http://www.jkslbc.com/StateProfile.php http://www.jkslbc.com/StateProfile.php [4]: https://nhm.hp.gov.in/demographic-profile https://nhm.hp.gov.in/demographic-profile
    - alephnerd 3y ago
      Ethnically and culturally, Jammu (not Kashmir), HP, and Uttarakhand are closely connected (Lower Himachal with Jammu and Upper Himachal with Uttarakhand). The fact that JK and Uttarakhand both have a high sex ratio but HP's fell is hard to square, especially when factoring that HP's overall sex ratio is also at 1040. A drop to 875 in less than a generation is very weird. > adult men trying to find mates, both states will likely have a deficit of womem For Paharis (not Kashmiris), marriage has to be exogamous. A Mandeali basically cannot marry another Mandeali - you'll have to marry out to another valley otherwise it's incest. That's how Pahari communities/biradaris traditionally spread from Manshera to Garhwal. > I don't want this to be about Kerala Fair. Just overly defensive because some South Indians have recently gotten a bit chauvinistic about "North Indians".

nonethewiser 3y ago

Am I supposed to believe teens not having sex is bad? By all means kids should be educated on sex and have access to contraceptive. But I thought everyone still agreed abstinence was the ideal. Edit: I misunderstood the age range in the article (18-30, thought it was younger). My comment doesnt really apply then.

ethbr1 3y ago
I don't agree on that. If they're doing it safely, more power to them. There's no line around sex that makes it different than other things.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  I initially thought we were talking about a lower age range than the 18-30 in the article. Which age range do you have in mind? Even at 18-30 I don't think a decline is inherently bad. I think it entirely depends on the reason. Are men becoming less socialized? More addicted to porn? Sure, thats bad. Are they being more mindful of who they have sex with? Good. Are a smaller share of men having a larger percentage of sex? Hard to make a ruling on that one.
  - ethbr1 3y ago
    With partners of similar ages? That's their business. Kids mature at different rates.
    - nonethewiser 3y ago
      Really? More power to kids of ANY similar age having sex with each other?
      - xwolfi 3y ago
        What are you trying to make him say? First, sex is not the only thing kids do earlier than 18: kissing and fondling, we did at various ages and it's I think normal and quite harmless. It s not like teenagers will wait for their 18th birthday at noon to start thinking about it. But that means nothing special: ofc consent is priority and I agree consent is hard to give in full awareness before 16 and assumed automatically after 18 (since that s the definition of majority: your decisions become your responsibility). I think we need to be a bit honest that between 16 and 18 there s a grey area where kids experiment and instead of saying they shouldnt and hide our head in the sand, we could maybe focus on guiding them towards safe practice just in case. I kissed my first girlfriend at 14, had my first blowjob at 17, and first penetration at 19: it's a slow progress to maturity and not once my age mattered to me, it was completely irrelevant and we just discovered it slowly all together. No one seemed to have been harmed. But I can def accept stricter enforcement before 16 just because it s really really hard to make sure they understand what they consent to.