4 ms·

I've always felt like farms should be able to have another route to electrification, because you're dealing with the same set of fields in a constrained geograp

I've always felt like farms should be able to have another route to electrification, because you're dealing with the same set of fields in a constrained geography for years at a time. Like, why go battery-heavy at all? Why not design some sort of EVA-like tether to a utility pole in each set of fields? Hook up your equipment when you enter the fields, spend 8-12 hours driving back and forth attached to the tether, unhook and use a small battery -- or even a battery-trailer -- to reach the next field or the barn at the end of the day. Obviously there are problems with this scheme, but the point I'm getting at is that field work is such a radically different set of constraints to interstate, city or even rail networks that it feels like there should be a different set of solutions possible.

theshrike79 3y ago
There are industrial machines that do just this. They move 100% of their lifetime in a specific spot so they're always tethered. Also farms are the premium spot for electrification. Tractors need to run for long times (especially in the HUGE farms in the US that are bigger than some countries...), but there are other vehicles that can be electrified like ATVs, forklifts and other small tools. The best thing is that many farms can produce their own electricity from biogas on-site. Or use the biogas directly in CBG converted engines.
mrtksn 3y ago
That sounds quite logical, and almost like there must be some equipment working that way.
- theodric 3y ago
  There's a tethered electric ferry, anyway https://youtu.be/xhwZ-XFKJKk https://youtu.be/xhwZ-XFKJKk
- Aardwolf 3y ago
  Not a farm example, but trolley buses do this in cities Apparently there was one in 1882: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:First_Trolleybuss_of_Siemens_in_Berlin_1882_(postcard).jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:First_Trolleybuss_of_Siem...
  - neilv 3y ago
    In a part of Cambridge, MA, electric trolley buses with overhead lines ran for ~90 years, through 2022. https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/03/09/metro/overhead-electric-buses-have-been-gliding-down-streets-cambridge-nearly-90-years-this-weekend-theyll-take-their-last-trips/ https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/03/09/metro/overhead-electr... Instead of the usual ICE loud bus noises, the most noticeable sound was like (IIRC) maybe some springy metal brushing along some other metal.
    - FooBarBizBazz 3y ago
      It's a little sad that those went away, but if they can successfully do battery-electric busses, I guess it's ok. It's nice when a simple, hundred-year-old-plus technology can just continue to work though.
      - TaylorAlexander 3y ago
        I don’t remember the analysis but I recall being effectively convinced that battery electric busses are a huge step down compared to electric trolleys.
        masklinn 3y ago
        If you have trolleys and you replace them by BES then that seems obvious, you need space for batteries & they impact handling and you replace daylong distributed electricity use by spot charge during which the bus is immobilised. Something I’ve seen mentioned a few times but don’t know has been deployed is having trolley poles on a battery electric bus tho: you still have the battery space and weight issues but if you’re on trolley routes you don’t need to charge, and it allows more flexibility as the batteries mean you can go off-route (useful in case of blockage or roadworks), buses can now jump between sections, if the engagement procedure is good enough you can electrify bus stops with overhead hooks to spot-charge (just get the poles out and engaged), and you have the flexibility to explore bus route layouts and “upgrade” them to trolley routes without touching the rolling stock.
theodric 3y ago
I think it would be tricky and would create more purpose-specific equipment to buy. Fields are big, like sometimes really big, definitionally remote, and electrical transmission losses are real at "normal" voltages with fieldscale lengths. And crucially, the weight of batteries is actually a benefit for a tractor: the heavier you are, the more you can pull and cantilever. Without them, you'll still be dragging around 5000 pounds of steel ballast to hit a useful weight on your tethered tractor. Batteries can also serve as remote power banks (electric PTO) miles from any electrical supply, just as regular PTO driven tools use the mechanical energy from the engine to do other work besides toodling and pulling anywhere on the farm. I mean, I'm open to it. Batteries are expensive-- most of the cost of a tractor conversion. Go build a prototype that competes on cost and I'll cheer from the sidelines and maybe buy one if I can afford it.
- a_t48 3y ago
  You have to watch out - past a certain weight you end up crushing the soil too much.
nradov 3y ago
The Soviet Union actually did that. They built some electric farm tractors that dragged long power cables behind them. It was a total failure. https://jalopnik.com/when-the-soviets-built-an-electric-tractor-5796595 https://jalopnik.com/when-the-soviets-built-an-electric-trac...
bluGill 3y ago
John Deere built one as an experiment. https://youtu.be/OJ9xKxAtDa8?feature=shared https://youtu.be/OJ9xKxAtDa8?feature=shared deere employee, but not speaking for the company.
TaylorAlexander 3y ago
I’m working on this, but our approach is to make purely solar powered machines (no batteries even, just supercapacitors) and redesign the farming process to be less energy intensive. This won’t be a drop in replacement for current conventional farms which rely on a lot of energy intense tillage, but it does seem to me a viable path long term. https://community.twistedfields.com/t/join-the-solar-farming-revolution-support-acorn-and-empower-farmers-worldwide/370 https://community.twistedfields.com/t/join-the-solar-farming...

theshrike79 3y ago

There are industrial machines that do just this. They move 100% of their lifetime in a specific spot so they're always tethered. Also farms are the premium spot for electrification. Tractors need to run for long times (especially in the HUGE farms in the US that are bigger than some countries...), but there are other vehicles that can be electrified like ATVs, forklifts and other small tools. The best thing is that many farms can produce their own electricity from biogas on-site. Or use the biogas directly in CBG converted engines.

mrtksn 3y ago

That sounds quite logical, and almost like there must be some equipment working that way.

theodric 3y ago
There's a tethered electric ferry, anyway https://youtu.be/xhwZ-XFKJKk https://youtu.be/xhwZ-XFKJKk
Aardwolf 3y ago
Not a farm example, but trolley buses do this in cities Apparently there was one in 1882: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:First_Trolleybuss_of_Siemens_in_Berlin_1882_(postcard).jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:First_Trolleybuss_of_Siem...
- neilv 3y ago
  In a part of Cambridge, MA, electric trolley buses with overhead lines ran for ~90 years, through 2022. https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/03/09/metro/overhead-electric-buses-have-been-gliding-down-streets-cambridge-nearly-90-years-this-weekend-theyll-take-their-last-trips/ https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/03/09/metro/overhead-electr... Instead of the usual ICE loud bus noises, the most noticeable sound was like (IIRC) maybe some springy metal brushing along some other metal.
  - FooBarBizBazz 3y ago
    It's a little sad that those went away, but if they can successfully do battery-electric busses, I guess it's ok. It's nice when a simple, hundred-year-old-plus technology can just continue to work though.
    - TaylorAlexander 3y ago
      I don’t remember the analysis but I recall being effectively convinced that battery electric busses are a huge step down compared to electric trolleys.
      - masklinn 3y ago
        If you have trolleys and you replace them by BES then that seems obvious, you need space for batteries & they impact handling and you replace daylong distributed electricity use by spot charge during which the bus is immobilised. Something I’ve seen mentioned a few times but don’t know has been deployed is having trolley poles on a battery electric bus tho: you still have the battery space and weight issues but if you’re on trolley routes you don’t need to charge, and it allows more flexibility as the batteries mean you can go off-route (useful in case of blockage or roadworks), buses can now jump between sections, if the engagement procedure is good enough you can electrify bus stops with overhead hooks to spot-charge (just get the poles out and engaged), and you have the flexibility to explore bus route layouts and “upgrade” them to trolley routes without touching the rolling stock.

theodric 3y ago

I think it would be tricky and would create more purpose-specific equipment to buy. Fields are big, like sometimes really big, definitionally remote, and electrical transmission losses are real at "normal" voltages with fieldscale lengths. And crucially, the weight of batteries is actually a benefit for a tractor: the heavier you are, the more you can pull and cantilever. Without them, you'll still be dragging around 5000 pounds of steel ballast to hit a useful weight on your tethered tractor. Batteries can also serve as remote power banks (electric PTO) miles from any electrical supply, just as regular PTO driven tools use the mechanical energy from the engine to do other work besides toodling and pulling anywhere on the farm. I mean, I'm open to it. Batteries are expensive-- most of the cost of a tractor conversion. Go build a prototype that competes on cost and I'll cheer from the sidelines and maybe buy one if I can afford it.

a_t48 3y ago
You have to watch out - past a certain weight you end up crushing the soil too much.

nradov 3y ago

The Soviet Union actually did that. They built some electric farm tractors that dragged long power cables behind them. It was a total failure. https://jalopnik.com/when-the-soviets-built-an-electric-tractor-5796595 https://jalopnik.com/when-the-soviets-built-an-electric-trac...

bluGill 3y ago

John Deere built one as an experiment. https://youtu.be/OJ9xKxAtDa8?feature=shared https://youtu.be/OJ9xKxAtDa8?feature=shared deere employee, but not speaking for the company.

TaylorAlexander 3y ago

I’m working on this, but our approach is to make purely solar powered machines (no batteries even, just supercapacitors) and redesign the farming process to be less energy intensive. This won’t be a drop in replacement for current conventional farms which rely on a lot of energy intense tillage, but it does seem to me a viable path long term. https://community.twistedfields.com/t/join-the-solar-farming-revolution-support-acorn-and-empower-farmers-worldwide/370 https://community.twistedfields.com/t/join-the-solar-farming...