8 ms·

Yeah, or maybe it's "just" ADHD. "Just" in parentheses because it's a horrible condition to have. Russel Barkley with a succinct video on "ADHD as Motivation D

Yeah, or maybe it's "just" ADHD. "Just" in parentheses because it's a horrible condition to have. Russel Barkley with a succinct video on "ADHD as Motivation Deficit Disorder": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR3RJU6838c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR3RJU6838c

dmvdoug 3y ago
Nailed it. With a small caveat. It’s more a matter of executive functioning [1], less one of (strictly speaking) motivation (although that is how it often feels, so I understand why that’s used as a kind of shorthand). I can very easily feel and be motivated to accomplish some task, but still fail to make any progress (or even begin) until it’s deadline time. Then comes feelings of guilt and self-loathing because I just can’t seem to get my shit together (despite knowing that that’s a wildly wrong way of framing it). It is horrible. But it’s manageable on most days (and yes, I’m medicated and have been since early adulthood). And honestly, having people in your life who understand your condition and can help pick you up sometimes [2], is a huge part of coping. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_functions https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_functions [2] I do not mean do stuff for you. For me, when I’m in that place where I’m so frustrated that the only options are either to primally scream or to sit in the corner and cry, a simple fucking hug is like a miracle drug.
- Aurornis 3y ago
  > less one of (strictly speaking) motivation FYI, the Russel Barkley video from the grandparent comment is a controversial figure. He presents a lot of his own pet ADHD theories as if they were facts. He's one of the OG internet ADHD influencers, back when ADHD was still commonly stigmatized. Someone I know joked that if you watched enough Russel Barkley videos, anyone could convince themselves they had ADHD.
layer8 3y ago
Nope, I don’t have any of the typical ADHD symptoms (inattention, hyperactivity, impulsivity — rather the opposite), but still procrastinate to problematic levels due to perfectionism.
- ycombinete 3y ago
  Yes. There are various reasons to procrastinate. ADHD procrastination is more about emotional discomfort avoidance than perfectionism.
  - temp112123 3y ago
    [dead]
  - layer8 3y ago
    Procrastination due to perfectionism (instead of working on the thing you want to do perfectly) is also due to emotional discomfort avoidance (because the procrastination takes your mind off the imperfections associated with what you ought to be working on).
- growingkittens 3y ago
  The opposite of those symptoms - like hyperfocus, inability to switch tasks, decision-making inertia, etc.?
LoganDark 3y ago
ADHD has totally ruined so many aspects of my life. It's a straight-up disability for me. It stops mattering how "gifted" I am when the ability to use that gift is constantly revoked whenever I find something new to use it on. It's like my brain is constantly trying to patch an exploit, like it never wants me to actually use any of my potential. Meds helped for only a few months. Then my brain patched that exploit too. :/
renegade-otter 3y ago
Procrastination is not a new thing. And ADHD is a pretty rare condition - just look at the diagnosis rate from country to country. The US has the highest one because doctors here are basically legal Speed drug dealers - for children. The author of the Search Engine pod just had a two-parter about his "ADHD": https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/whyd-i-take-speed-for-twenty-years/id1614253637?i=1000632809966 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/whyd-i-take-speed-for-... (The history of regulating Speed in the US is actually fascinating). I could focus just fine all my life, then suddenly I couldn't. I've talked to other adults who are experiencing the same. And it's funny how people get super torqued when you say something like this. There is a lot of room between "I have legit ADHD" and "I am addicted to my phone". Sometimes I could not start a project at work for weeks - then I got off Twitter.
- dboreham 3y ago
  My personal family experience had been that today in the US it's very hard to get an ADHD diagnosis, at least if the patient is smart and manages to achieve decent school grades.
- neon_electro 3y ago
  Just remember adults here are also dealing with being diagnosed for the first time, and all of the stigma around how this affects kids affects adults, too.
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  The speed for children scare mongering is pathetic and ignorant and betrays your lack of experience with children with this and related condition. Lots of kids have behavioral and impulse control problems. If you give them amphetamines you see exactly the same problems, but with the boundless energy amphetamines give you. When you give amphetamines to ADHD children they visibly and noticeably become calmer, quieter, and more focused. If you did not come into it with the predetermined idea that this drug is "speed" you would certainly not arrive there from watching the behavior of medicated children with ADHD. You were addicted to twitter good for you for solving your problems. Don't extrapolate that experience out to kids though. ADHD is fucked up, life ruining stuff. Look at the rates for drug abuse, car crashes and incarceration for adults with untreated ADHD. This sort of scare mongering makes it less likely for children to access effective treatment when it can be most impactful on their lives. It is harmful and you should be ashamed.
Aurornis 3y ago
Counterpoint: ADHD diagnoses are a hot topic among kids and junior devs right now. Many of them self-diagnose based on Reddit, Twitter, or TikTok information that tells them that ADHD explains away all of their perceived shortcomings: It's the reason they're not motivated, it's the reason they didn't attend an Ivy League school, it's the reason they don't earn as much as their peers, it's the reason their last significant other broke up with them, and so on (these are all real examples from conversations I've had with mentees since ADHD started trending on social media during COVID) One of the most concerning patterns I've seen is that these people go out and find a doctor who will prescribe them stimulants (during COVID it was as easy as following ads on TikTok, filling out a form, and having a <5 minute virtual visit with a doctor, believe it or not) and then many of them get worse. By this I mean the stimulant medication supercharges their actual underlying problem: The anxious procrastinators become even more anxious. The perfectionist procrastinators become even more obsessed with perfecting things. The video game procrastinators now game for harder and longer with stimulants in their system. The hobby/side project procrastinators are now putting in more hours on their side project and have even less time for the work or studies they're supposed to be doing. I'm not saying that ADHD isn't real, because it's definitely real and debilitating. I'm saying that we have a real problem with the current trend of "ADHD explains everything". Social media has supercharged this trend by bombarding people with videos that position ADHD as a perfect excuse and explanation for their frustrations. They are frighteningly good at finding a video or TikTok or Reddit post that tells them exactly what they want to hear, and they're also good at skipping past any content that doesn't confirm their beliefs. I have extended family who are in grade school education, and the trend goes all the way into 5th and 6th grade from what they tell me: Kids using "I have ADHD" as an excuse for everything and then trying to show their teacher a TikTok that explains why they shouldn't be held accountable for late homework, low grades, or behavioral problems. They're not alone, it's a common topic in /r/teachers on Reddit too ( https://www.reddit.com/r/Teachers/comments/12cfdj3/i_have_adhd_is_the_new_i_didnt_do_it/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Teachers/comments/12cfdj3/i_have_ad... )
- kpw94 3y ago
  > It's the reason they ... A recent nytimes opinion on the subject: https://twitter.com/emmma_camp_/status/1726390207740608823 https://twitter.com/emmma_camp_/status/1726390207740608823 >> It's generally a sign of progress when diagnoses that were once whispered in shameful secrecy enter our everyday vocabulary and shed their stigma. But especially online, where therapy "influencers" flood social media feeds with content about trauma, panic attacks and personality disorders, greater awareness of mental health problems risks encouraging self-diagnosis and the pathologizing of commonplace emotions what Dr. Foulkes calls "problems of living." When teenagers gravitate toward such content on their social media feeds, algorithms serve them more of it, intensifying the feedback loop.

dmvdoug 3y ago

Nailed it. With a small caveat. It’s more a matter of executive functioning [1], less one of (strictly speaking) motivation (although that is how it often feels, so I understand why that’s used as a kind of shorthand). I can very easily feel and be motivated to accomplish some task, but still fail to make any progress (or even begin) until it’s deadline time. Then comes feelings of guilt and self-loathing because I just can’t seem to get my shit together (despite knowing that that’s a wildly wrong way of framing it). It is horrible. But it’s manageable on most days (and yes, I’m medicated and have been since early adulthood). And honestly, having people in your life who understand your condition and can help pick you up sometimes [2], is a huge part of coping. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_functions https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_functions [2] I do not mean do stuff for you. For me, when I’m in that place where I’m so frustrated that the only options are either to primally scream or to sit in the corner and cry, a simple fucking hug is like a miracle drug.

Aurornis 3y ago
> less one of (strictly speaking) motivation FYI, the Russel Barkley video from the grandparent comment is a controversial figure. He presents a lot of his own pet ADHD theories as if they were facts. He's one of the OG internet ADHD influencers, back when ADHD was still commonly stigmatized. Someone I know joked that if you watched enough Russel Barkley videos, anyone could convince themselves they had ADHD.

layer8 3y ago

Nope, I don’t have any of the typical ADHD symptoms (inattention, hyperactivity, impulsivity — rather the opposite), but still procrastinate to problematic levels due to perfectionism.

ycombinete 3y ago
Yes. There are various reasons to procrastinate. ADHD procrastination is more about emotional discomfort avoidance than perfectionism.
- temp112123 3y ago
  [dead]
- layer8 3y ago
  Procrastination due to perfectionism (instead of working on the thing you want to do perfectly) is also due to emotional discomfort avoidance (because the procrastination takes your mind off the imperfections associated with what you ought to be working on).
growingkittens 3y ago
The opposite of those symptoms - like hyperfocus, inability to switch tasks, decision-making inertia, etc.?

LoganDark 3y ago

ADHD has totally ruined so many aspects of my life. It's a straight-up disability for me. It stops mattering how "gifted" I am when the ability to use that gift is constantly revoked whenever I find something new to use it on. It's like my brain is constantly trying to patch an exploit, like it never wants me to actually use any of my potential. Meds helped for only a few months. Then my brain patched that exploit too. :/

renegade-otter 3y ago

Procrastination is not a new thing. And ADHD is a pretty rare condition - just look at the diagnosis rate from country to country. The US has the highest one because doctors here are basically legal Speed drug dealers - for children. The author of the Search Engine pod just had a two-parter about his "ADHD": https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/whyd-i-take-speed-for-twenty-years/id1614253637?i=1000632809966 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/whyd-i-take-speed-for-... (The history of regulating Speed in the US is actually fascinating). I could focus just fine all my life, then suddenly I couldn't. I've talked to other adults who are experiencing the same. And it's funny how people get super torqued when you say something like this. There is a lot of room between "I have legit ADHD" and "I am addicted to my phone". Sometimes I could not start a project at work for weeks - then I got off Twitter.

dboreham 3y ago
My personal family experience had been that today in the US it's very hard to get an ADHD diagnosis, at least if the patient is smart and manages to achieve decent school grades.
neon_electro 3y ago
Just remember adults here are also dealing with being diagnosed for the first time, and all of the stigma around how this affects kids affects adults, too.
giraffe_lady 3y ago
The speed for children scare mongering is pathetic and ignorant and betrays your lack of experience with children with this and related condition. Lots of kids have behavioral and impulse control problems. If you give them amphetamines you see exactly the same problems, but with the boundless energy amphetamines give you. When you give amphetamines to ADHD children they visibly and noticeably become calmer, quieter, and more focused. If you did not come into it with the predetermined idea that this drug is "speed" you would certainly not arrive there from watching the behavior of medicated children with ADHD. You were addicted to twitter good for you for solving your problems. Don't extrapolate that experience out to kids though. ADHD is fucked up, life ruining stuff. Look at the rates for drug abuse, car crashes and incarceration for adults with untreated ADHD. This sort of scare mongering makes it less likely for children to access effective treatment when it can be most impactful on their lives. It is harmful and you should be ashamed.

Aurornis 3y ago

Counterpoint: ADHD diagnoses are a hot topic among kids and junior devs right now. Many of them self-diagnose based on Reddit, Twitter, or TikTok information that tells them that ADHD explains away all of their perceived shortcomings: It's the reason they're not motivated, it's the reason they didn't attend an Ivy League school, it's the reason they don't earn as much as their peers, it's the reason their last significant other broke up with them, and so on (these are all real examples from conversations I've had with mentees since ADHD started trending on social media during COVID) One of the most concerning patterns I've seen is that these people go out and find a doctor who will prescribe them stimulants (during COVID it was as easy as following ads on TikTok, filling out a form, and having a <5 minute virtual visit with a doctor, believe it or not) and then many of them get worse. By this I mean the stimulant medication supercharges their actual underlying problem: The anxious procrastinators become even more anxious. The perfectionist procrastinators become even more obsessed with perfecting things. The video game procrastinators now game for harder and longer with stimulants in their system. The hobby/side project procrastinators are now putting in more hours on their side project and have even less time for the work or studies they're supposed to be doing. I'm not saying that ADHD isn't real, because it's definitely real and debilitating. I'm saying that we have a real problem with the current trend of "ADHD explains everything". Social media has supercharged this trend by bombarding people with videos that position ADHD as a perfect excuse and explanation for their frustrations. They are frighteningly good at finding a video or TikTok or Reddit post that tells them exactly what they want to hear, and they're also good at skipping past any content that doesn't confirm their beliefs. I have extended family who are in grade school education, and the trend goes all the way into 5th and 6th grade from what they tell me: Kids using "I have ADHD" as an excuse for everything and then trying to show their teacher a TikTok that explains why they shouldn't be held accountable for late homework, low grades, or behavioral problems. They're not alone, it's a common topic in /r/teachers on Reddit too ( https://www.reddit.com/r/Teachers/comments/12cfdj3/i_have_adhd_is_the_new_i_didnt_do_it/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Teachers/comments/12cfdj3/i_have_ad... )

kpw94 3y ago
> It's the reason they ... A recent nytimes opinion on the subject: https://twitter.com/emmma_camp_/status/1726390207740608823 https://twitter.com/emmma_camp_/status/1726390207740608823 >> It's generally a sign of progress when diagnoses that were once whispered in shameful secrecy enter our everyday vocabulary and shed their stigma. But especially online, where therapy "influencers" flood social media feeds with content about trauma, panic attacks and personality disorders, greater awareness of mental health problems risks encouraging self-diagnosis and the pathologizing of commonplace emotions what Dr. Foulkes calls "problems of living." When teenagers gravitate toward such content on their social media feeds, algorithms serve them more of it, intensifying the feedback loop.