5 ms·

I think considering RSS as the solution ignores the upsides that algorithms do have, that of analyzing behavior, it's almost interactive. The problem of course

I think considering RSS as the solution ignores the upsides that algorithms do have, that of analyzing behavior, it's almost interactive. The problem of course is what the algorithms are generally tuned towards. Imagine instead a sort of open source algorithm where you're in control of how you want to tune your goals. I often dream of this, the highest technology with in depth behavior analysis, but in service of each individual user instead of the tech overlords and its army of advertisers.

rthomas6 3y ago
That's basically what StumbleUpon was, and it was great while it lasted. You clicked like on stuff you liked, and it would show you more stuff that other people who liked similar things liked. If someone could make something like that again for 2023, I would use it.
- broscillator 3y ago
  There's also the aspect of timing, an algorithm could pace different styles of content and analyze how the themes and purpose keep you engaged, in which order to show them, as well as what's the best pacing of longer and shorter content in order to have the best experience.
- Nevermark 3y ago
  StumbleUpon failed to monetize in a way that let it improve its algorithms and resources, enough to stay relevant to (most) people. The most obvious thing would have been advertising -> enshittification. Otherwise, they needed some other form of profit -> improvement -> more profit solution. The economics of these systems is a first level problem, inextricable from the good they do. For me that is the answer as to why everything doesn't run through Tor. You can't scale for demand if demand doesn't reliably contribute at least as much value to its own supply quantity and quality.
  - broscillator 3y ago
    I think what you're saying is definitely a factor, but I like to imagine it's a factor for innovation, but once the capability has been breached, then the possibilities for implementing something similar on a smaller scale, and thus possibly divorced from ad revenue, then we could see algorithms implemented with goals set by individuals for their own good. Kind of like how now there's not just reddit clones all over, but you can basically spin your own.
    - Nevermark 3y ago
      I think there is a convergence in our views. To work for our personal interests, and only us (i.e. no third party), we need to pay for the resources directly, whether its hardware or a cloud service. Whether we contribute to an open algorithm or pay others to work on the algorithm. We can certainly provide our own hardware and innovation. But most people don't want to manage these things themselves, they want a service. Another reason for the cloud/provider solution, is that a lot of these services have functions that are amortizable across users: i.e. crawling, indexing, correlation analysis, etc., that precede making individual recommendations. Either way, if people don't contribute in proportion to their demand for service quality, scale and innovation, the system is going to either die, or get subsidized by third parties who find the resources to be highly competitive by using us.
      - broscillator 3y ago
        I don't follow why it can't be software in the same way that you can download blender and make your own animated movie if you have a beefy enough computer.
        Nevermark 3y ago
        That is what I meant with: > We can certainly provide our own hardware and innovation. I.e. our own hardware for running software.
      - ivancho 3y ago
semolino 3y ago
Agreed; hopefully it will soon be easy to deploy intelligent, locally-run/configurable user agents to crawl the web on our behalf and find our personal gold. I still think RSS is a great way of encapsulating data in a format that's almost equally human- and machine-readable, regardless of how "smart" you want your aggregation to be.
- broscillator 3y ago
  I wish I had a use for RSS, but the few websites I actively read, I enjoy their design, not just their content, and the rest is on YT. Maybe I lack imagination in how RSS could help me beyond being a collection of articles unified under a common GUI. If you want to provide details on how you use it I'd be glad to read it.
  - gkbrk 3y ago
    You can still use it to get updates from websites you like reading, and then click through to the full page on the website without reading the content inside your feed reader.
api 3y ago
Who would pay for it? That’s always the problem with nice things in software and online. Advertisers pay for the lobotomy engines that drive social media.
- broscillator 3y ago
  Nowadays one can spin their own email service or media server. Why can't we see something similar happening in the near future with AI assistants? I don't mean universally accessible, it might only be for tech savvy people.

rthomas6 3y ago

That's basically what StumbleUpon was, and it was great while it lasted. You clicked like on stuff you liked, and it would show you more stuff that other people who liked similar things liked. If someone could make something like that again for 2023, I would use it.

broscillator 3y ago
There's also the aspect of timing, an algorithm could pace different styles of content and analyze how the themes and purpose keep you engaged, in which order to show them, as well as what's the best pacing of longer and shorter content in order to have the best experience.
Nevermark 3y ago
StumbleUpon failed to monetize in a way that let it improve its algorithms and resources, enough to stay relevant to (most) people. The most obvious thing would have been advertising -> enshittification. Otherwise, they needed some other form of profit -> improvement -> more profit solution. The economics of these systems is a first level problem, inextricable from the good they do. For me that is the answer as to why everything doesn't run through Tor. You can't scale for demand if demand doesn't reliably contribute at least as much value to its own supply quantity and quality.
- broscillator 3y ago
  I think what you're saying is definitely a factor, but I like to imagine it's a factor for innovation, but once the capability has been breached, then the possibilities for implementing something similar on a smaller scale, and thus possibly divorced from ad revenue, then we could see algorithms implemented with goals set by individuals for their own good. Kind of like how now there's not just reddit clones all over, but you can basically spin your own.
  - Nevermark 3y ago
    I think there is a convergence in our views. To work for our personal interests, and only us (i.e. no third party), we need to pay for the resources directly, whether its hardware or a cloud service. Whether we contribute to an open algorithm or pay others to work on the algorithm. We can certainly provide our own hardware and innovation. But most people don't want to manage these things themselves, they want a service. Another reason for the cloud/provider solution, is that a lot of these services have functions that are amortizable across users: i.e. crawling, indexing, correlation analysis, etc., that precede making individual recommendations. Either way, if people don't contribute in proportion to their demand for service quality, scale and innovation, the system is going to either die, or get subsidized by third parties who find the resources to be highly competitive by using us.
    - broscillator 3y ago
      I don't follow why it can't be software in the same way that you can download blender and make your own animated movie if you have a beefy enough computer.
      - Nevermark 3y ago
        That is what I meant with: > We can certainly provide our own hardware and innovation. I.e. our own hardware for running software.
    - ivancho 3y ago

semolino 3y ago

Agreed; hopefully it will soon be easy to deploy intelligent, locally-run/configurable user agents to crawl the web on our behalf and find our personal gold. I still think RSS is a great way of encapsulating data in a format that's almost equally human- and machine-readable, regardless of how "smart" you want your aggregation to be.

broscillator 3y ago
I wish I had a use for RSS, but the few websites I actively read, I enjoy their design, not just their content, and the rest is on YT. Maybe I lack imagination in how RSS could help me beyond being a collection of articles unified under a common GUI. If you want to provide details on how you use it I'd be glad to read it.
- gkbrk 3y ago
  You can still use it to get updates from websites you like reading, and then click through to the full page on the website without reading the content inside your feed reader.

api 3y ago

Who would pay for it? That’s always the problem with nice things in software and online. Advertisers pay for the lobotomy engines that drive social media.

broscillator 3y ago
Nowadays one can spin their own email service or media server. Why can't we see something similar happening in the near future with AI assistants? I don't mean universally accessible, it might only be for tech savvy people.