9 ms·

A police officer once told me officers liked having something concrete and easy to catch someone with. His mode of thinking was "if someone is willing to risk j

A police officer once told me officers liked having something concrete and easy to catch someone with. His mode of thinking was "if someone is willing to risk jail for something as simple as weed, imagine what else they'd do for a greater reward"

mock-possum 3y ago
Sounds like exactly the sort of person that should not be a cop
- talldatethrow 3y ago
  Maybe. He was pretty convincing. The above goes along with his statement on "non violent drug offenders". He thinks it's a false concept, because again most people risking jail time transporting 5lbs of weed also do other bad things, but you just can't catch them doing it or prove it. If a drug dealer doesn't get paid by someone, they usually ARE violent with that person. If someone snitches to the police, they are violent with that person. If you insult a drug dealer casually on the street, they are violent with that person. They do carry weapons with them often. But catching them being violent or using their weapons is pretty hard. Catching them with the 5 lbs is easier. And then they get labeled non violent.
  - throwaway902984 3y ago
    > He thinks it's a false concept, because again most people risking jail time transporting 5lbs of weed also do other bad things That isn't the case IME, most people in the black market dealing with weed are pretty non-violent up until you are talking millions of dollars, which 5lbs will never be. They tend to only deal in weed or weed derivatives at those levels as well. It just doesn't make economic sense to do otherwise. What little bloods and crips style stuff of favela fame is a lot less common now too from what I can tell.
    - talldatethrow 3y ago
      People robbing a weed store shot and killed a police officer in Oakland a few days ago. Nice people.
      - pseudalopex 3y ago
        People robbing a car dealership shot a police officer in Ohio a few months ago.[1] What do you think this proves about car dealers? [1] https://www.nbc4i.com/news/local-news/columbus/bank-robbery-chase-shuts-down-i-70-through-columbus/ https://www.nbc4i.com/news/local-news/columbus/bank-robbery-...
        talldatethrow 3y ago
        My point was people commiting crimes are overall bad people. Trafficking and selling weed isn't like speeding. You have a massive mental issue if you're doing things that can send you to real prison. Most people don't do these things.
      - throwaway902984 3y ago
        Regular ol' white market stores getting robbed is like any other smash and grab robbery, but you're not associating weed with violence rn any more than you are jewelry stores with violence.
  - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
    > If a drug dealer doesn't get paid by someone, they usually ARE violent with that person. If someone snitches to the police, they are violent with that person. If you insult a drug dealer casually on the street, they are violent with that person. All of this is caused by the drugs being illegal, which prevents them from seeking justice in the usual way if someone steals from them or rips them off etc. If you were to legalize drugs and release them, they would no longer have any incentive to resort to violence. And the same logic applies to people in other situations. If you regularly get shaken down by two bit thugs and the police do nothing no matter how many times you report it, you're likely to eventually take matters into your own hands, even though that isn't exactly legal. So should the police use any excuse they can to arrest you, for the situation they caused, because people in that situation are disposed to commit a violent crime the state can't even prove?
    - talldatethrow 3y ago
      Oh yes, you often hear about small time drug dealers taking the person who wronged them to small claims court for other matters.
      - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
        About as often as you hear about it for anyone else. It's called bargaining in the shadow of the law. If you have the ability to take someone to court, they know that too, and know you'd win, so they're willing to settle up with you peacefully rather than both of you incurring the costs of going to court. When a small time drug dealer's car needs service covered under warranty, they don't go in and threaten the dealership with violence, they drop off the car and expect the dealership to honor the contract. Which the dealership does in the same way as they do for anyone else, because the dealership doesn't know anything about their extracurricular criminal activity and can't use it to renege on their obligations by threatening to turn them in to the police.
  - MeImCounting 3y ago
    This is really hilarious to read. You must not have met many weed dealers before have you? Specifically the examples where a "drug dealer" would be violent are so divorced from my own lived experience that it really makes me wonder if this is how some of society really thinks weed dealers act like.
    - talldatethrow 3y ago
      Is it possible your weed dealer acts differently with you then he does in the other parts of his life? He's clearly ok with jail time. Are you? If not, seems like you guys are slightly different people and you may not know him well.
      - MeImCounting 3y ago
        Well, having lived with and generally hung out with these "drug dealers" for most of my youth the idea of them secretly having a set of circumstances where they would act violently that they keep secret from their family and friends is certainly possible I suppose. Its also a really funny idea. I get it you think to be a weed dealer you need to be some kind of hardened criminal who commits all sorts of various crimes or whatever, but im here to break it to you that the hollywood criminal drug dealers youre imagining dont really exist. Many people do all sorts of illegal things because we live in a country with many overly restrictive and draconian laws. Very few of those people are the dangerous criminals you are imagining. Most of them are regular people who dont have the religious reverence for arbitrary laws that some other memebers of our society have.
        fennecbutt 3y ago
        Pretty sure they don't mean your cool neighbour who sells tinnys, but more the ones moving larger amounts, one or two steps away from the grow. Pretty much every grow bust they find guns, etc. Even in countries where it should be almost impossible to get those guns.
        MeImCounting 3y ago
sowbug 3y ago
In my first year of law school, my criminal-law professor often mentioned that a fundamental value of the US justice system is to "punish bad acts, not bad people." I took my professor's statement on faith, but 30+ years later I wish I'd asked for a citation. It seems like your cop friend would have twisted the value to "use bad acts as an excuse to punish bad people." I'm sure it's easy to find plenty of Americans who think that's an excellent mission for their neighborhood police force. Which makes me sad, because it means that one's "badness" isn't defined by one's actual choices. I agree that bad people do exist. And I'm sure that prosecuted crimes are committed disproportionately by those we'd define as "bad people." But I don't think that bad acts committed by good people are any better than those committed by bad people. And I don't think that a bad person who resists committing bad acts should be treated worse than a good person who also resists committing them.

mock-possum 3y ago

Sounds like exactly the sort of person that should not be a cop

talldatethrow 3y ago
Maybe. He was pretty convincing. The above goes along with his statement on "non violent drug offenders". He thinks it's a false concept, because again most people risking jail time transporting 5lbs of weed also do other bad things, but you just can't catch them doing it or prove it. If a drug dealer doesn't get paid by someone, they usually ARE violent with that person. If someone snitches to the police, they are violent with that person. If you insult a drug dealer casually on the street, they are violent with that person. They do carry weapons with them often. But catching them being violent or using their weapons is pretty hard. Catching them with the 5 lbs is easier. And then they get labeled non violent.
- throwaway902984 3y ago
  > He thinks it's a false concept, because again most people risking jail time transporting 5lbs of weed also do other bad things That isn't the case IME, most people in the black market dealing with weed are pretty non-violent up until you are talking millions of dollars, which 5lbs will never be. They tend to only deal in weed or weed derivatives at those levels as well. It just doesn't make economic sense to do otherwise. What little bloods and crips style stuff of favela fame is a lot less common now too from what I can tell.
  - talldatethrow 3y ago
    People robbing a weed store shot and killed a police officer in Oakland a few days ago. Nice people.
    - pseudalopex 3y ago
      People robbing a car dealership shot a police officer in Ohio a few months ago.[1] What do you think this proves about car dealers? [1] https://www.nbc4i.com/news/local-news/columbus/bank-robbery-chase-shuts-down-i-70-through-columbus/ https://www.nbc4i.com/news/local-news/columbus/bank-robbery-...
      - talldatethrow 3y ago
        My point was people commiting crimes are overall bad people. Trafficking and selling weed isn't like speeding. You have a massive mental issue if you're doing things that can send you to real prison. Most people don't do these things.
    - throwaway902984 3y ago
      Regular ol' white market stores getting robbed is like any other smash and grab robbery, but you're not associating weed with violence rn any more than you are jewelry stores with violence.
- AnthonyMouse 3y ago
  > If a drug dealer doesn't get paid by someone, they usually ARE violent with that person. If someone snitches to the police, they are violent with that person. If you insult a drug dealer casually on the street, they are violent with that person. All of this is caused by the drugs being illegal, which prevents them from seeking justice in the usual way if someone steals from them or rips them off etc. If you were to legalize drugs and release them, they would no longer have any incentive to resort to violence. And the same logic applies to people in other situations. If you regularly get shaken down by two bit thugs and the police do nothing no matter how many times you report it, you're likely to eventually take matters into your own hands, even though that isn't exactly legal. So should the police use any excuse they can to arrest you, for the situation they caused, because people in that situation are disposed to commit a violent crime the state can't even prove?
  - talldatethrow 3y ago
    Oh yes, you often hear about small time drug dealers taking the person who wronged them to small claims court for other matters.
    - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
      About as often as you hear about it for anyone else. It's called bargaining in the shadow of the law. If you have the ability to take someone to court, they know that too, and know you'd win, so they're willing to settle up with you peacefully rather than both of you incurring the costs of going to court. When a small time drug dealer's car needs service covered under warranty, they don't go in and threaten the dealership with violence, they drop off the car and expect the dealership to honor the contract. Which the dealership does in the same way as they do for anyone else, because the dealership doesn't know anything about their extracurricular criminal activity and can't use it to renege on their obligations by threatening to turn them in to the police.
- MeImCounting 3y ago
  This is really hilarious to read. You must not have met many weed dealers before have you? Specifically the examples where a "drug dealer" would be violent are so divorced from my own lived experience that it really makes me wonder if this is how some of society really thinks weed dealers act like.
  - talldatethrow 3y ago
    Is it possible your weed dealer acts differently with you then he does in the other parts of his life? He's clearly ok with jail time. Are you? If not, seems like you guys are slightly different people and you may not know him well.
    - MeImCounting 3y ago
      Well, having lived with and generally hung out with these "drug dealers" for most of my youth the idea of them secretly having a set of circumstances where they would act violently that they keep secret from their family and friends is certainly possible I suppose. Its also a really funny idea. I get it you think to be a weed dealer you need to be some kind of hardened criminal who commits all sorts of various crimes or whatever, but im here to break it to you that the hollywood criminal drug dealers youre imagining dont really exist. Many people do all sorts of illegal things because we live in a country with many overly restrictive and draconian laws. Very few of those people are the dangerous criminals you are imagining. Most of them are regular people who dont have the religious reverence for arbitrary laws that some other memebers of our society have.
      - fennecbutt 3y ago
        Pretty sure they don't mean your cool neighbour who sells tinnys, but more the ones moving larger amounts, one or two steps away from the grow. Pretty much every grow bust they find guns, etc. Even in countries where it should be almost impossible to get those guns.
        MeImCounting 3y ago

sowbug 3y ago

In my first year of law school, my criminal-law professor often mentioned that a fundamental value of the US justice system is to "punish bad acts, not bad people." I took my professor's statement on faith, but 30+ years later I wish I'd asked for a citation. It seems like your cop friend would have twisted the value to "use bad acts as an excuse to punish bad people." I'm sure it's easy to find plenty of Americans who think that's an excellent mission for their neighborhood police force. Which makes me sad, because it means that one's "badness" isn't defined by one's actual choices. I agree that bad people do exist. And I'm sure that prosecuted crimes are committed disproportionately by those we'd define as "bad people." But I don't think that bad acts committed by good people are any better than those committed by bad people. And I don't think that a bad person who resists committing bad acts should be treated worse than a good person who also resists committing them.