6 ms·

What blockade? They have a border with Egypt. Why won't Egypt let them leave? There was never a blockade because Israel never surrounded Gaza.

by snird 3y ago

viraptor 3y ago
The border to Egypt refuses any cargo. All goods have to be brought in through Israel. There two issues there - that doesn't make the effective blockade from Israel's side a non-issue.
- snird 3y ago
  So if Egypt refuses - why should Israel supply an enemy that mass murdered entire families and babies and mass raped teenage girls? https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-hamas-oct-7-murder-sexual-violence-torture-45aab439?mod=hp_lead_pos7 https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-hamas-oct-7-mur...
  - viraptor 3y ago
    Why are you equating Palestinian population to Hamas? And omitting that not supplying the population is effectively equivalent to killing a portion of it? The situation is not as simple as you're trying to reduce it to.
imtringued 3y ago
It is pretty obvious that if given the option, Israel would drive every last Palestinian out of the Gaza strip just to be sure that Hamas can't send rockets ever again. Once Palestinians have left, they will never be allowed to go back. You end up with millions of stateless people. Also you pulled the last sentence out of your ass, talking as if Israel doesn't border the Gaza strip, because the city itself technically has no border with Israel.
johnnyworker 3y ago
> They have a border with Egypt. Why won't Egypt let them leave? "Leave" as in "ethnically cleanse themselves, never to return"? So what's all this song and dance about pretending to not be on board with genocide about? > There was never a blockade because Israel never surrounded Gaza. Ahuh. https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-counted-calorie-requirements-of-gazans-during-land-blockade-to-avoid-crisis/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-counted-calorie-require... > Israel maintained the blockade was necessary to weaken Hamas, an armed, Iranian-backed group committed to Israel’s destruction. > But critics say the blockade constituted collective punishment against Gaza’s more than 1.5 million people in its ultimately failed effort to shake Hamas’ hold on the territory. An American diplomatic cable revealed by WikiLeaks last year quoted Israeli diplomats as saying they wanted to “keep Gaza’s economy on the brink of collapse.” [..] > Similar to the calculation of the calorie needs, Israel also used baffling secret guidelines to differentiate between humanitarian necessities and nonessential luxuries. The result was that military bureaucrats enforcing the blockade allowed frozen salmon and low-fat yogurt into the Hamas-ruled territory, but not cilantro or instant coffee. There never was a blockade. There is no genocide. Just keep handwaving and it will all go away.
- badpun 3y ago
  > "Leave" as in "ethnically cleanse themselves, never to return"? So what's all this song and dance about pretending to not be on board with genocide about? Ethic cleansing is about mass relocating people, while genocide is about mass murdering them. They are two different phenomena.
  - johnnyworker 3y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide > acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group When they all live in refugees in other countries, they are destroyed as a national group. With this level of hair splitting you might as well say it's not genocide as long as even one member of the group survives, why not go there, too.
    - badpun 3y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing > Ethnic cleansing has been described as part of a continuum of violence whose most extreme form is genocide, where the perpetrator's goal is the destruction of the targeted group. Ethnic cleansing is similar to forced deportation or population transfer whereas genocide is the attempt to destroy part or all of a particular ethnic, racial, religious, or national group. While ethnic cleansing and genocide may share the same goal and the acts which are used to perpetrate both crimes may often resemble each other, ethnic cleansing is intended to displace a persecuted population from a given territory, while genocide is intended to destroy a group. Whereas, by your understanding, ethnic cleansing and genocide are the same thing. Why would we need the term "ethnic cleansing" then?
      - johnnyworker 3y ago
        How is displaying a national group elsewhere not destroying it as a national group? That's why I say genocide. And at best you could say they don't care if the Palestinians live or die as long as they go away, by bombs, starvation or fleeing, and then can take the land. https://twitter.com/GLZRadio/status/1741347524693127398 https://twitter.com/GLZRadio/status/1741347524693127398 > "If we act strategically correctly, there will be immigration and we will live in the Gaza Strip. We will not allow a situation where 2 million people live there. If there are 100-200 thousand Arabs in Gaza, all the talk is about the day after will be different. They want to leave, they have been living in the ghetto for 75 years and are in need" Admitting Gaza is a ghetto and the desire to ethnically cleanse it in one fell swoop. > Raz Segal, the program director of genocide studies at Stockton University, concretely says it is a “textbook case of genocide.” Segal believes that Israeli forces are completing three genocidal acts, including, “killing, causing serious bodily harm, and measures calculated to bring about the destruction of the group.” He points to the mass levels of destruction and total siege of basic necessities—like water, food, fuel, and medical supplies—as evidence. -- https://time.com/6334409/is-whats-happening-gaza-genocide-experts/ https://time.com/6334409/is-whats-happening-gaza-genocide-ex... So, at the very least, some of the people literally studying genocide are agreeing it is genocide. And many people who deny it is have political motivations. So fuck their nuance. If people can commit genocide or rub shoulders with people who do, they'll survive being called genocidal. It's not about their feelings or the face they think they can save, it's about the people who are getting murdered and driven away by colonialists.
flandish 3y ago
Nice. Why SHOULD they leave? It’s their land. Have you tried not supporting genocide, you bigot.
keefle 3y ago
Just a reminder that Gaza faces the Mediterranean Sea too, but Israel does not allow any ship to go there. It doesn't allow them to create a port. Israel is effectively controlling what gets in and out of Gaza. Israel does surround Gaza, and for the part it doesn't "surround it" (Egypt), it has agreements with the Egyptian government on what goes in and out.

What blockade? They have a border with Egypt. Why won't Egypt let them leave? There was never a blockade because Israel never surrounded Gaza.

by snird 3y ago

What blockade? They have a border with Egypt. Why won't Egypt let them leave? There was never a blockade because Israel never surrounded Gaza.

viraptor 3y ago

The border to Egypt refuses any cargo. All goods have to be brought in through Israel. There two issues there - that doesn't make the effective blockade from Israel's side a non-issue.

snird 3y ago
So if Egypt refuses - why should Israel supply an enemy that mass murdered entire families and babies and mass raped teenage girls? https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-hamas-oct-7-murder-sexual-violence-torture-45aab439?mod=hp_lead_pos7 https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-hamas-oct-7-mur...
- viraptor 3y ago
  Why are you equating Palestinian population to Hamas? And omitting that not supplying the population is effectively equivalent to killing a portion of it? The situation is not as simple as you're trying to reduce it to.

imtringued 3y ago

It is pretty obvious that if given the option, Israel would drive every last Palestinian out of the Gaza strip just to be sure that Hamas can't send rockets ever again. Once Palestinians have left, they will never be allowed to go back. You end up with millions of stateless people. Also you pulled the last sentence out of your ass, talking as if Israel doesn't border the Gaza strip, because the city itself technically has no border with Israel.

johnnyworker 3y ago

> They have a border with Egypt. Why won't Egypt let them leave? "Leave" as in "ethnically cleanse themselves, never to return"? So what's all this song and dance about pretending to not be on board with genocide about? > There was never a blockade because Israel never surrounded Gaza. Ahuh. https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-counted-calorie-requirements-of-gazans-during-land-blockade-to-avoid-crisis/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-counted-calorie-require... > Israel maintained the blockade was necessary to weaken Hamas, an armed, Iranian-backed group committed to Israel’s destruction. > But critics say the blockade constituted collective punishment against Gaza’s more than 1.5 million people in its ultimately failed effort to shake Hamas’ hold on the territory. An American diplomatic cable revealed by WikiLeaks last year quoted Israeli diplomats as saying they wanted to “keep Gaza’s economy on the brink of collapse.” [..] > Similar to the calculation of the calorie needs, Israel also used baffling secret guidelines to differentiate between humanitarian necessities and nonessential luxuries. The result was that military bureaucrats enforcing the blockade allowed frozen salmon and low-fat yogurt into the Hamas-ruled territory, but not cilantro or instant coffee. There never was a blockade. There is no genocide. Just keep handwaving and it will all go away.

badpun 3y ago
> "Leave" as in "ethnically cleanse themselves, never to return"? So what's all this song and dance about pretending to not be on board with genocide about? Ethic cleansing is about mass relocating people, while genocide is about mass murdering them. They are two different phenomena.
- johnnyworker 3y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide > acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group When they all live in refugees in other countries, they are destroyed as a national group. With this level of hair splitting you might as well say it's not genocide as long as even one member of the group survives, why not go there, too.
  - badpun 3y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing > Ethnic cleansing has been described as part of a continuum of violence whose most extreme form is genocide, where the perpetrator's goal is the destruction of the targeted group. Ethnic cleansing is similar to forced deportation or population transfer whereas genocide is the attempt to destroy part or all of a particular ethnic, racial, religious, or national group. While ethnic cleansing and genocide may share the same goal and the acts which are used to perpetrate both crimes may often resemble each other, ethnic cleansing is intended to displace a persecuted population from a given territory, while genocide is intended to destroy a group. Whereas, by your understanding, ethnic cleansing and genocide are the same thing. Why would we need the term "ethnic cleansing" then?
    - johnnyworker 3y ago
      How is displaying a national group elsewhere not destroying it as a national group? That's why I say genocide. And at best you could say they don't care if the Palestinians live or die as long as they go away, by bombs, starvation or fleeing, and then can take the land. https://twitter.com/GLZRadio/status/1741347524693127398 https://twitter.com/GLZRadio/status/1741347524693127398 > "If we act strategically correctly, there will be immigration and we will live in the Gaza Strip. We will not allow a situation where 2 million people live there. If there are 100-200 thousand Arabs in Gaza, all the talk is about the day after will be different. They want to leave, they have been living in the ghetto for 75 years and are in need" Admitting Gaza is a ghetto and the desire to ethnically cleanse it in one fell swoop. > Raz Segal, the program director of genocide studies at Stockton University, concretely says it is a “textbook case of genocide.” Segal believes that Israeli forces are completing three genocidal acts, including, “killing, causing serious bodily harm, and measures calculated to bring about the destruction of the group.” He points to the mass levels of destruction and total siege of basic necessities—like water, food, fuel, and medical supplies—as evidence. -- https://time.com/6334409/is-whats-happening-gaza-genocide-experts/ https://time.com/6334409/is-whats-happening-gaza-genocide-ex... So, at the very least, some of the people literally studying genocide are agreeing it is genocide. And many people who deny it is have political motivations. So fuck their nuance. If people can commit genocide or rub shoulders with people who do, they'll survive being called genocidal. It's not about their feelings or the face they think they can save, it's about the people who are getting murdered and driven away by colonialists.

flandish 3y ago

Nice. Why SHOULD they leave? It’s their land. Have you tried not supporting genocide, you bigot.

keefle 3y ago

Just a reminder that Gaza faces the Mediterranean Sea too, but Israel does not allow any ship to go there. It doesn't allow them to create a port. Israel is effectively controlling what gets in and out of Gaza. Israel does surround Gaza, and for the part it doesn't "surround it" (Egypt), it has agreements with the Egyptian government on what goes in and out.