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MH17 was shot down by a Russian anti-aircraft missile, killing all 298 p.o.b. with no consequences for Russia. Russia has flown Bear nuclear-capable bombers ov

by ra 3y ago

MH17 was shot down by a Russian anti-aircraft missile, killing all 298 p.o.b. with no consequences for Russia. Russia has flown Bear nuclear-capable bombers over the UK (actually over land), with no consequences [1]. Russia, Iran, and North Korea all trade arms with each other and supply missiles, drones, and ammunition to the Houthi. Russia invaded Ukraine and deploy weapons from the above "axis" countries. I don't think a specific individual trigger event exists for a military response. More typically, the West goes to war when energy security is threatened. [1] My parents live in Cornwall and witnessed this https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/feb/19/russian-bomber-flew-inland-cornwall-uk-airspace-witness https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/feb/19/russian-bomb...

fennecfoxy 3y ago
Don't forget: Russians enter UK to perform an assassination using a potent nerve agent (with essentially no repercussions). They do this all the time and get away with it. And like a child that doesn't get told off, they'll keep on doing it.
petesergeant 3y ago
> MH17 was shot down by a Russian anti-aircraft missile, killing all 298 p.o.b. with no consequences for Russia I don’t think this is a good example, given that the act is widely considered to be a mistake. The US shot down IR655, Soviets KL007, Ukrainians S7-1812, Iranians PS752 ... it happens. MH17 is egregious (as was KL007) for a refusal to admit blame, but hardly a casus belli, despite the tragedy.
- Aeolun 3y ago
  Eh, we had them refusing access to the investigation and recovery teams for a while. If the shooting of the airliner wasn’t, that would have been one had it persisted (though it let up after a day or so).
m4rtink 3y ago
Though I would hope that in a hopefully civilized age such acts and war crimes would be punished prevented from happening again, I would not say there are no consequences of these actions. Many Dutch citizens have been killed on board of MH17 - and the amount of military support to Ukraine provided by the Dutch has been quite significant. As for Iran and North Korea - I would say some lines have been crossed there that will play out longer term, but at least it now seems to be, for some peculiar reason, easier for South Korea to ship artillery shells abroad, either directly to Ukraine or to back fill allied stocks so they can ship what they have to Ukraine. Also I don't think Isreal/Russia relations will recover from what Iran linked terrorists did on October 7. While rather busy right now, Isreal produces some rather advanced weapon systems, one really does not want to be on the receiving end of (see the Karabakh war as an example). Also after it became apparent Russia was behind the Vrbetice ammunition warehouse explosion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_warehouse_explosions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_...), which killed 2 Czech citizens, the response was quite significant (on a 10 million citizen country scale): * almost all Russian diplomats expelled (ending one of the bigger Russian embassies in EU) * Russia was removed from the lucrative Dukovany nuclear power plant tender * many Czech companies who still had relations from the soviet times with Russian companies stopped providing support and shipping replacement parts * LOTS of kit: https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/07/bohemian-brotherhood-list-of-czech.html https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/07/bohemian-brotherhood-l... - 79 MBTS + 105 more to be restored & shipped to Ukraine - multiple mi-24 helicopter gunships - 100+ IFVs - dozens of self propelled guns - Anti Shahed technicals (!) - 10000 RPGs, 1.5+ Million Artillery, Tank And Mortar Shells, a small mountain of small arms, a big mountain of small arms ammunition Some of this was even crowdfuded - a tank, a Tatra based MLRS system, some of the technicals. There is also an ongoing fundraiser to buy a UH-60 Black Hawk (!): https://www.weaponstoukraine.com/kampane/cestmir https://www.weaponstoukraine.com/kampane/cestmir So while in reality evil is often not ended by Gandalf charging in, the same or arguable even worse result for the evildoer is often achieved over a longer time with less glorious, messy but still effective means.
- tifik 3y ago
  While Vrbetice is one of them, there is a million reasons why Czechs support a defensive war effort against Russia. E.g: being occupied for decades by Soviets and seeing the country wither under the Moscov rule.

by ra 3y ago

fennecfoxy 3y ago

Don't forget: Russians enter UK to perform an assassination using a potent nerve agent (with essentially no repercussions). They do this all the time and get away with it. And like a child that doesn't get told off, they'll keep on doing it.

petesergeant 3y ago

> MH17 was shot down by a Russian anti-aircraft missile, killing all 298 p.o.b. with no consequences for Russia I don’t think this is a good example, given that the act is widely considered to be a mistake. The US shot down IR655, Soviets KL007, Ukrainians S7-1812, Iranians PS752 ... it happens. MH17 is egregious (as was KL007) for a refusal to admit blame, but hardly a casus belli, despite the tragedy.

Aeolun 3y ago
Eh, we had them refusing access to the investigation and recovery teams for a while. If the shooting of the airliner wasn’t, that would have been one had it persisted (though it let up after a day or so).

m4rtink 3y ago

Though I would hope that in a hopefully civilized age such acts and war crimes would be punished prevented from happening again, I would not say there are no consequences of these actions. Many Dutch citizens have been killed on board of MH17 - and the amount of military support to Ukraine provided by the Dutch has been quite significant. As for Iran and North Korea - I would say some lines have been crossed there that will play out longer term, but at least it now seems to be, for some peculiar reason, easier for South Korea to ship artillery shells abroad, either directly to Ukraine or to back fill allied stocks so they can ship what they have to Ukraine. Also I don't think Isreal/Russia relations will recover from what Iran linked terrorists did on October 7. While rather busy right now, Isreal produces some rather advanced weapon systems, one really does not want to be on the receiving end of (see the Karabakh war as an example). Also after it became apparent Russia was behind the Vrbetice ammunition warehouse explosion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_warehouse_explosions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_...), which killed 2 Czech citizens, the response was quite significant (on a 10 million citizen country scale): * almost all Russian diplomats expelled (ending one of the bigger Russian embassies in EU) * Russia was removed from the lucrative Dukovany nuclear power plant tender * many Czech companies who still had relations from the soviet times with Russian companies stopped providing support and shipping replacement parts * LOTS of kit: https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/07/bohemian-brotherhood-list-of-czech.html https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/07/bohemian-brotherhood-l... - 79 MBTS + 105 more to be restored & shipped to Ukraine - multiple mi-24 helicopter gunships - 100+ IFVs - dozens of self propelled guns - Anti Shahed technicals (!) - 10000 RPGs, 1.5+ Million Artillery, Tank And Mortar Shells, a small mountain of small arms, a big mountain of small arms ammunition Some of this was even crowdfuded - a tank, a Tatra based MLRS system, some of the technicals. There is also an ongoing fundraiser to buy a UH-60 Black Hawk (!): https://www.weaponstoukraine.com/kampane/cestmir https://www.weaponstoukraine.com/kampane/cestmir So while in reality evil is often not ended by Gandalf charging in, the same or arguable even worse result for the evildoer is often achieved over a longer time with less glorious, messy but still effective means.

tifik 3y ago
While Vrbetice is one of them, there is a million reasons why Czechs support a defensive war effort against Russia. E.g: being occupied for decades by Soviets and seeing the country wither under the Moscov rule.