3 ms·

Being "managed out" (as this is sometimes called) of a long term role can be very traumatic. Especially if you-the-employee approach the situation with a natura

Being "managed out" (as this is sometimes called) of a long term role can be very traumatic. Especially if you-the-employee approach the situation with a natural and genuine desire to fix or heal the situation, in the face of the (unbeknownst to you) deliberate and ongoing undermining coming from management. Which then draws the process out as long as possible - max pain. Sadly, one of the best options is to - as the author is more-or-less doing - resign yourself to cynically playing your side of the game, in order to extract the best possible concessions. While being mindful of the personal cost of protraction. I've been through it, and, again sadly, one of the more lasting regrets was that I showed any legal or financial mercy or restraint at the time - regret for the significant concessions that I had made from of a sense of personal 'decency'. None whatsoever was shown to me.

scarface_74 3y ago
My experience https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38474212 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38474212
blagie 3y ago
I have never been laid off or fired*. However, for most of my adult life, a layoff would have been traumatic. I have a specialized skillset, and it takes a while to find jobs. In the meantime, I have living expenses. It's doubly hard to find a job unemployed. I don't want to be in that position. "Managed out" would be much more humane, at least to me. If I'm put in a role I don't like, I have time to find another job. Ideally, this would be explicit ("We don't like you, so we're giving you the shit work, but if you find a better offer, please take it."). If you want me out, stick me in a box writing test cases or documentation or something until I leave. Heck, cut my salary by 30%. I'll be much more happy than if I suddenly have zero income and no job. It can be good for the company too. If there's someone to do the crappy work while they do the job, no one else has to. * I've had one "it's complicated" as a founder, but that's a longer story. It didn't involve losing my salary overnight like a layoff or firing, through.
- eastbound 3y ago
  > "We don't like you, so we're giving you the shit work, but if you find a better offer, please take it." I’m an entrepreneur in France, and I had one employee I would have like to say that to, but it can so easily be turned against the employer… Unions and litigations have basically made honesty the worst choice in every situation. Only to discover afterwards that the person had been willing to go since 6 months already. The entire experience is stupid, stupid humans working (or not working) together.
- Aeolun 3y ago
  > I'll be much more happy than if I suddenly have zero income and no job. That entirely depends on whether they give you those 3-6 months of severance they’re supposed to give. I’d rather have that money without the need to spend my days killing my motivation by writing pointless docs.
  - blagie 3y ago
    I've never had an employer who gave 3-6 months severance. Part of it also depends on your employability. A generalized, fungible skillset makes finding jobs relatively quick. If I were a SWE in SFO, I'd take the severance. For me, good jobs come up once every 1-2 years. When they do, they're AWESOME, but if I were ever laid off, I could expect to either: - Have no income for a long time; - Take a job which made me miserable; or - Perhaps do consulting or a startup I have a very non-fungible skill set. That means there are very rarely people who want to hire me in an appropriate role, but when they come up, they're often very desperate to hire me.
- rsanek 3y ago
  I don't mean to come off as aggressive but shouldn't you have enough savings not to care about this? Generally specialized skillsets mean high enough pay to have a significant portion that is discretionary savings / spending. I've tried to use at least a portion of mine to create a freedom fund (often called "fuck you money") that has enough to cover our expenses for at least a year.
  - 3y ago
rollcat 3y ago
> Especially if you-the-employee approach the situation with a natural and genuine desire to fix or heal the situation, in the face of the (unbeknownst to you) deliberate and ongoing undermining coming from management. I've only tried this once. In the process of trying, something dawned upon me. If you think you can run a company better than your management does, go start one. So I did! One of the best decisions of my life.

scarface_74 3y ago

My experience https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38474212 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38474212

blagie 3y ago

I have never been laid off or fired*. However, for most of my adult life, a layoff would have been traumatic. I have a specialized skillset, and it takes a while to find jobs. In the meantime, I have living expenses. It's doubly hard to find a job unemployed. I don't want to be in that position. "Managed out" would be much more humane, at least to me. If I'm put in a role I don't like, I have time to find another job. Ideally, this would be explicit ("We don't like you, so we're giving you the shit work, but if you find a better offer, please take it."). If you want me out, stick me in a box writing test cases or documentation or something until I leave. Heck, cut my salary by 30%. I'll be much more happy than if I suddenly have zero income and no job. It can be good for the company too. If there's someone to do the crappy work while they do the job, no one else has to. * I've had one "it's complicated" as a founder, but that's a longer story. It didn't involve losing my salary overnight like a layoff or firing, through.

eastbound 3y ago
> "We don't like you, so we're giving you the shit work, but if you find a better offer, please take it." I’m an entrepreneur in France, and I had one employee I would have like to say that to, but it can so easily be turned against the employer… Unions and litigations have basically made honesty the worst choice in every situation. Only to discover afterwards that the person had been willing to go since 6 months already. The entire experience is stupid, stupid humans working (or not working) together.
Aeolun 3y ago
> I'll be much more happy than if I suddenly have zero income and no job. That entirely depends on whether they give you those 3-6 months of severance they’re supposed to give. I’d rather have that money without the need to spend my days killing my motivation by writing pointless docs.
- blagie 3y ago
  I've never had an employer who gave 3-6 months severance. Part of it also depends on your employability. A generalized, fungible skillset makes finding jobs relatively quick. If I were a SWE in SFO, I'd take the severance. For me, good jobs come up once every 1-2 years. When they do, they're AWESOME, but if I were ever laid off, I could expect to either: - Have no income for a long time; - Take a job which made me miserable; or - Perhaps do consulting or a startup I have a very non-fungible skill set. That means there are very rarely people who want to hire me in an appropriate role, but when they come up, they're often very desperate to hire me.
rsanek 3y ago
I don't mean to come off as aggressive but shouldn't you have enough savings not to care about this? Generally specialized skillsets mean high enough pay to have a significant portion that is discretionary savings / spending. I've tried to use at least a portion of mine to create a freedom fund (often called "fuck you money") that has enough to cover our expenses for at least a year.
- 3y ago

rollcat 3y ago

> Especially if you-the-employee approach the situation with a natural and genuine desire to fix or heal the situation, in the face of the (unbeknownst to you) deliberate and ongoing undermining coming from management. I've only tried this once. In the process of trying, something dawned upon me. If you think you can run a company better than your management does, go start one. So I did! One of the best decisions of my life.