2 ms·

Exactly. Your argument boils down to "I'm the worst demographic for a car company, but I want them to make money-losing vehicles for me."

alephnerd 3y ago
We are all buyers in the top 1-5% of Incomes in the US. If it is increasingly unaffordable for high earners like us, then there is something fundamentally wrong. And let's be honest, a sub-35k EV is a solved problem. BYD and similar companies sells in Australia, NZ, Central Europe, and Japan at a similar price point.
- qwerpy 3y ago
  I agree that it would be nice to have sub 35k cars but I’m surprised people in the fields and levels you mentioned have to put off buying a car for financial reasons. When I first started working more than a decade ago I was making 60K and didn’t think twice about buying a 25K car. Multiply the numbers by 2 to adjust for inflation now and it should be similar.
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    > I’m surprised people in the fields and levels you mentioned have to put off buying a car for financial reasons The monthly cost reaches $1k a month in 2023 (parking+interest+insurance). We all can afford it, but the question is why spend $12k a year on transportation when Caltrain+BART+Muni+VTA and Uber come out for less. > buying a 25K The average new car in 2023 is $48k, and the average used is $26k. With used you end up paying more in insurance and get worse financing.
    - qwerpy 3y ago
      Ah yeah if you live in a big city served by public transportation, having a car becomes a luxury. I’m a suburb/rural guy so having a car is more of a necessity, but housing is cheaper and parking is free so the costs cancel out somewhat.
      - alephnerd 3y ago
        Yep. Most of those high earning jobs are in the city and suburban areas, which makes car ownership a luxury. Though, even in rural areas car ownership costs have become heavily unaffordable, now that average rent prices nationally are around $1400/mo compared to $700/mo a decade ago [0], while median salary in 2023 is at $4,000/mo (pre-tax) [0] - https://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/data/histtab11.xlsx https://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/data/histtab11.xlsx
- nradov 3y ago
  And yet sales volumes for the past several years have been near record levels. Regardless of incomes, consumers are buying those expensive vehicles. So, why would manufacturers waste resources on building cheaper models if they don't have to?
- numpad0 3y ago
  BYD in Japan? November figure for all BYD was 166. In contrast, Toyota sold about 100 cars short of 17k Yaris, in just Japan in that name and the month alone. Sub 35k is as solved as any cost of market entry problems are.
- xboxnolifes 3y ago
  If you're really a 1-5% earner and cars seem unaffordable, you're really overspending elsewhere.
Clamchop 3y ago
Giving big "throwaway" energy.
numpad0 3y ago
It does. And it's not just GP. Most praised EVs are sold at loss. Most criticized are sold at profit. Everyone can see winds changing on Tesla, guess what happened to them few quarters back.

alephnerd 3y ago

We are all buyers in the top 1-5% of Incomes in the US. If it is increasingly unaffordable for high earners like us, then there is something fundamentally wrong. And let's be honest, a sub-35k EV is a solved problem. BYD and similar companies sells in Australia, NZ, Central Europe, and Japan at a similar price point.

qwerpy 3y ago
I agree that it would be nice to have sub 35k cars but I’m surprised people in the fields and levels you mentioned have to put off buying a car for financial reasons. When I first started working more than a decade ago I was making 60K and didn’t think twice about buying a 25K car. Multiply the numbers by 2 to adjust for inflation now and it should be similar.
- alephnerd 3y ago
  > I’m surprised people in the fields and levels you mentioned have to put off buying a car for financial reasons The monthly cost reaches $1k a month in 2023 (parking+interest+insurance). We all can afford it, but the question is why spend $12k a year on transportation when Caltrain+BART+Muni+VTA and Uber come out for less. > buying a 25K The average new car in 2023 is $48k, and the average used is $26k. With used you end up paying more in insurance and get worse financing.
  - qwerpy 3y ago
    Ah yeah if you live in a big city served by public transportation, having a car becomes a luxury. I’m a suburb/rural guy so having a car is more of a necessity, but housing is cheaper and parking is free so the costs cancel out somewhat.
    - alephnerd 3y ago
      Yep. Most of those high earning jobs are in the city and suburban areas, which makes car ownership a luxury. Though, even in rural areas car ownership costs have become heavily unaffordable, now that average rent prices nationally are around $1400/mo compared to $700/mo a decade ago [0], while median salary in 2023 is at $4,000/mo (pre-tax) [0] - https://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/data/histtab11.xlsx https://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/data/histtab11.xlsx
nradov 3y ago
And yet sales volumes for the past several years have been near record levels. Regardless of incomes, consumers are buying those expensive vehicles. So, why would manufacturers waste resources on building cheaper models if they don't have to?
numpad0 3y ago
BYD in Japan? November figure for all BYD was 166. In contrast, Toyota sold about 100 cars short of 17k Yaris, in just Japan in that name and the month alone. Sub 35k is as solved as any cost of market entry problems are.
xboxnolifes 3y ago
If you're really a 1-5% earner and cars seem unaffordable, you're really overspending elsewhere.

Clamchop 3y ago

Giving big "throwaway" energy.

numpad0 3y ago

It does. And it's not just GP. Most praised EVs are sold at loss. Most criticized are sold at profit. Everyone can see winds changing on Tesla, guess what happened to them few quarters back.