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Again, your comparisons just totally ignore the reality of the US market. You might as well say "I wish car companies would be willing to sell all their vehicle

Again, your comparisons just totally ignore the reality of the US market. You might as well say "I wish car companies would be willing to sell all their vehicles at a loss." To be clear, I wish it were different. I owned a 2015 Volt, and I loved (still love) that car, and I think it would be the perfect vehicle for most people. I get 35-40 miles of electric range, which for me means a round trip to work plus 1 "errand" trip. The benefits were I never had to worry about range anxiety (I'd frequently use all of 0.1 miles of gas if I went over electric range during the day), I never needed to special charger at home (it would charge overnight on a normal US outlet), and for long trips I didn't have to worry at all about "charger anxiety" because it would just switch over to gas. And what happened? The Volt was always a money loser for GM, despite most owners loving the car. It was a huge lesson to me that (a) marketing is hugely important in the car industry, and (b) most people's car purchases are basically emotional decisions. It doesn't matter how "practical" your car is, many people essentially see their car as an extension of their identity. Again, I wish it weren't this way in the US, but pretending it's not doesn't do anyone any good.

alephnerd 3y ago
I am in the US market. I was an active car buyer before I decided against it, I and my peers (30 and younger) just aren't buying new or even used cars due to financial reasons, let alone EVs. The capital outlay on a new car, let alone an EV is too high when factoring incomes, and alternatives. And these are peers of mine in VC, Finance, Engineering Management, L7+ engineers. For our friends who are doing average jobs the affordability crisis is even worse.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  Exactly. Your argument boils down to "I'm the worst demographic for a car company, but I want them to make money-losing vehicles for me."
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    We are all buyers in the top 1-5% of Incomes in the US. If it is increasingly unaffordable for high earners like us, then there is something fundamentally wrong. And let's be honest, a sub-35k EV is a solved problem. BYD and similar companies sells in Australia, NZ, Central Europe, and Japan at a similar price point.
    - qwerpy 3y ago
      I agree that it would be nice to have sub 35k cars but I’m surprised people in the fields and levels you mentioned have to put off buying a car for financial reasons. When I first started working more than a decade ago I was making 60K and didn’t think twice about buying a 25K car. Multiply the numbers by 2 to adjust for inflation now and it should be similar.
      - alephnerd 3y ago
        > I’m surprised people in the fields and levels you mentioned have to put off buying a car for financial reasons The monthly cost reaches $1k a month in 2023 (parking+interest+insurance). We all can afford it, but the question is why spend $12k a year on transportation when Caltrain+BART+Muni+VTA and Uber come out for less. > buying a 25K The average new car in 2023 is $48k, and the average used is $26k. With used you end up paying more in insurance and get worse financing.
        qwerpy 3y ago
        Ah yeah if you live in a big city served by public transportation, having a car becomes a luxury. I’m a suburb/rural guy so having a car is more of a necessity, but housing is cheaper and parking is free so the costs cancel out somewhat.
        alephnerd 3y ago
        Yep. Most of those high earning jobs are in the city and suburban areas, which makes car ownership a luxury. Though, even in rural areas car ownership costs have become heavily unaffordable, now that average rent prices nationally are around $1400/mo compared to $700/mo a decade ago [0], while median salary in 2023 is at $4,000/mo (pre-tax) [0] - https://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/data/histtab11.xlsx https://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/data/histtab11.xlsx

alephnerd 3y ago

I am in the US market. I was an active car buyer before I decided against it, I and my peers (30 and younger) just aren't buying new or even used cars due to financial reasons, let alone EVs. The capital outlay on a new car, let alone an EV is too high when factoring incomes, and alternatives. And these are peers of mine in VC, Finance, Engineering Management, L7+ engineers. For our friends who are doing average jobs the affordability crisis is even worse.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
Exactly. Your argument boils down to "I'm the worst demographic for a car company, but I want them to make money-losing vehicles for me."
- alephnerd 3y ago
  We are all buyers in the top 1-5% of Incomes in the US. If it is increasingly unaffordable for high earners like us, then there is something fundamentally wrong. And let's be honest, a sub-35k EV is a solved problem. BYD and similar companies sells in Australia, NZ, Central Europe, and Japan at a similar price point.
  - qwerpy 3y ago
    I agree that it would be nice to have sub 35k cars but I’m surprised people in the fields and levels you mentioned have to put off buying a car for financial reasons. When I first started working more than a decade ago I was making 60K and didn’t think twice about buying a 25K car. Multiply the numbers by 2 to adjust for inflation now and it should be similar.
    - alephnerd 3y ago
      > I’m surprised people in the fields and levels you mentioned have to put off buying a car for financial reasons The monthly cost reaches $1k a month in 2023 (parking+interest+insurance). We all can afford it, but the question is why spend $12k a year on transportation when Caltrain+BART+Muni+VTA and Uber come out for less. > buying a 25K The average new car in 2023 is $48k, and the average used is $26k. With used you end up paying more in insurance and get worse financing.
      - qwerpy 3y ago
        Ah yeah if you live in a big city served by public transportation, having a car becomes a luxury. I’m a suburb/rural guy so having a car is more of a necessity, but housing is cheaper and parking is free so the costs cancel out somewhat.
        alephnerd 3y ago
        Yep. Most of those high earning jobs are in the city and suburban areas, which makes car ownership a luxury. Though, even in rural areas car ownership costs have become heavily unaffordable, now that average rent prices nationally are around $1400/mo compared to $700/mo a decade ago [0], while median salary in 2023 is at $4,000/mo (pre-tax) [0] - https://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/data/histtab11.xlsx https://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/data/histtab11.xlsx