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I feel like this is too hard to just assume without actual calculations. If it went to a grocery store, it would go from the farm to a central location (which

I feel like this is too hard to just assume without actual calculations. If it went to a grocery store, it would go from the farm to a central location (which is who knows how many hundreds of km away), to some distribution center (again, who knows how far away), to then go to a local supermarket. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s less efficient than shipping it to a local market! Aside from that, where do the products in a local supermarkt come from? Depending on your country, I’d be surprised if those bananas didn’t arrive on some freight ship. Talk about inefficiency! In my case, even tomatoes are often from a different country and then we export our own tomatoes to other countries too. It’s crazy. Next to that, I’m not sure about the other points. At least in my country it’s cheaper (everything is in season), fresher and simply way better. Regarding choice, it depends. I won’t find any locally grown bananas. But I will have more choice in vegetables and fruits that actually grow in my area. Personally I like that, since I care more about efficient and sustainable produce than shipping something halfway across the world for my pleasure.

bordercases 3y ago
I expect it's an issue where the value added for the consumer is within some externality of each business, but not of the market on a whole. This would mean that if any farmer decides that financial profit is the main form of value they optimize for, that farmers markets become indistinguishable from other grocery sources, punishing the consumer. But if most vendors either quantify non-financial outcomes or leave them as intangible then these consumer friendly qualities are unlikely to be optimized out.
Scoundreller 3y ago
> In my case, even tomatoes are often from a different country and then we export our own tomatoes to other countries too. This can make a lot of sense as the seasons shift. Eating local is only efficient and sustainable if you're sticking to what's in season or keeps well. Long term refrigerated storage, water-sourcing and indoor growing to extend seasons can outweigh the costs of freighting. In Canada you can find domestic bananas, but I can't imagine replicating the necessary growing conditions with woodfired greenhouses is better than freighting from the tropics (but I'll get some sparingly): https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/meet-the-farmers-growing-bananas-in-ontario-1.3007500?cache=yesclipId104062 https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/meet-the-farmers-growing-banan...
- JimBlackwood 3y ago
  Wow, that’s cool! I checked for The Netherlands aswell and it turns out we’re also growing our own bananas [0] with the first harvest being two years ago! It seems to be a research initiative to find new ways to cultivate bananas that are not susceptible to soil molds. > Eating local is only efficient and sustainable if you're sticking to what's in season or keeps well. Long term refrigerated storage, water-sourcing and indoor growing to extend seasons can outweigh the costs of freighting. Agreed! I think that’s why it’s so hard to just call farmers markets inefficient, though. Atleast, without research into how efficient they are. There’s so many arguments that can make it sound logical that they’re either more or less efficient than a grocery store. It could go either way. [0]: https://nederbanaan.nl/ https://nederbanaan.nl/ (I hate what they’re doing with their font. Double letters being some extremely elongated version of the single letter?)
jdminhbg 3y ago
> I’d be surprised if those bananas didn’t arrive on some freight ship. Talk about inefficiency! Freight ships are extremely efficient.
- JimBlackwood 3y ago
  Yes, definitely! However, bananas will need refrigerated containers. I unfortunately can’t find clear numbers on the freight shipping emissions itself but transporation accounts to up to 70% of emissions. [0] [0]: https://www.fao.org/3/i6842e/i6842e.pdf https://www.fao.org/3/i6842e/i6842e.pdf

bordercases 3y ago

I expect it's an issue where the value added for the consumer is within some externality of each business, but not of the market on a whole. This would mean that if any farmer decides that financial profit is the main form of value they optimize for, that farmers markets become indistinguishable from other grocery sources, punishing the consumer. But if most vendors either quantify non-financial outcomes or leave them as intangible then these consumer friendly qualities are unlikely to be optimized out.

Scoundreller 3y ago

> In my case, even tomatoes are often from a different country and then we export our own tomatoes to other countries too. This can make a lot of sense as the seasons shift. Eating local is only efficient and sustainable if you're sticking to what's in season or keeps well. Long term refrigerated storage, water-sourcing and indoor growing to extend seasons can outweigh the costs of freighting. In Canada you can find domestic bananas, but I can't imagine replicating the necessary growing conditions with woodfired greenhouses is better than freighting from the tropics (but I'll get some sparingly): https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/meet-the-farmers-growing-bananas-in-ontario-1.3007500?cache=yesclipId104062 https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/meet-the-farmers-growing-banan...

JimBlackwood 3y ago
Wow, that’s cool! I checked for The Netherlands aswell and it turns out we’re also growing our own bananas [0] with the first harvest being two years ago! It seems to be a research initiative to find new ways to cultivate bananas that are not susceptible to soil molds. > Eating local is only efficient and sustainable if you're sticking to what's in season or keeps well. Long term refrigerated storage, water-sourcing and indoor growing to extend seasons can outweigh the costs of freighting. Agreed! I think that’s why it’s so hard to just call farmers markets inefficient, though. Atleast, without research into how efficient they are. There’s so many arguments that can make it sound logical that they’re either more or less efficient than a grocery store. It could go either way. [0]: https://nederbanaan.nl/ https://nederbanaan.nl/ (I hate what they’re doing with their font. Double letters being some extremely elongated version of the single letter?)

jdminhbg 3y ago

> I’d be surprised if those bananas didn’t arrive on some freight ship. Talk about inefficiency! Freight ships are extremely efficient.

JimBlackwood 3y ago
Yes, definitely! However, bananas will need refrigerated containers. I unfortunately can’t find clear numbers on the freight shipping emissions itself but transporation accounts to up to 70% of emissions. [0] [0]: https://www.fao.org/3/i6842e/i6842e.pdf https://www.fao.org/3/i6842e/i6842e.pdf