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This seems like a good idea and hopefully becomes more common in other countries. The requirement to work for a foreign company and have an income double the a

This seems like a good idea and hopefully becomes more common in other countries. The requirement to work for a foreign company and have an income double the average seems to allay the complaint of taking local jobs and consuming local social services.

cassianoleal 3y ago
> seems to allay the complaint of taking local jobs and consuming local social services The fact that the visa doesn't allow application to local jobs is enough to stop the first complaint on its tracks. I wonder how they intend to deal with the seemingly inevitable rise in housing prices that comes with an influx of high earners.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- carlosjobim 3y ago
  Increasing rents and house prices is 100% to blame the owner/seller. If you want to destroy your own community for your personal gain you can't blame anybody else. Almost 100% of the population thinks it is right for home sellers and landlords to squeeze out as much as they can. Then blame somebody else for the consequences.
  - nonethewiser 3y ago
    If you increase demand prices go up. Not the sellers fault.
    - thfuran 3y ago
      They're saying that the sellers should just choose to sell for less.
      - nonethewiser 3y ago
        Yeah and women should pick mates based off video game skills. It's a human behavior which could theoretically be changed but wont be because it's irrational and unique to one person's perverse interests that none of the rational actors understand. Or maybe we could get the government to enforce this person's interests on everyone.
      - thriftwy 3y ago
        There would be insufficient supply on the market then. How is that better? I've heard they show an apartment to 20 competing prospective tenants at once in Switzerland. I can't begin to imagine how much 20 wasted work hours cost there, and number of such previews per deal grows at least linearly, hence the whole thing grows quadratically. I also see how it should destroy one's chances to rent any property if they deviate even slightly from the ideal tenant. A mixed ethnic family? Reject. Small child? Reject. Small business owner? Reject!
        alchemist1e9 3y ago
        This thread of comments is yet another in an endless number on HN where somehow socialists and collectivists come out and to me the most disappointing part is that it’s evidence of deep failure in education systems that they can educate people well enough to be technically literate and engage on HN, but at the same time are fundamentally economically illiterate. It’s disturbing and frankly dangerous. Socialism is the most failed idea in human history yet it continues to persist and in my opinion it’s a bit like not teaching evolution in schools, omitting to educate about some fundamental nature of reality.
        FredPret 3y ago
        I've often wondered about this. I think one reason for this is that the Soviet Union started infiltrating Western institutions about a century ago. This extremely long-ranged strategy is still churning out results, even after they went belly-up. It's the kind of phenomenon that sustains itself - what conservative would ever consider becoming an academic in this environment? And from there it spreads downward. It's also very helpful that the social "sciences" don't have a direct feedback loop to reality, so it's possible for large numbers of them to have completely kooky ideas for decades on end. https://repository.usfca.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1000&context=rl_fac https://repository.usfca.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=100... https://www.theguardian.com/education/2005/jul/01/schools.uk https://www.theguardian.com/education/2005/jul/01/schools.uk
    - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
      If I want to sell a widget for a dollar, I can sell it for a dollar. Demand doesn't force me to do anything I don't want to do. Especially when I know that selling it for a dollar would cover costs and net me profit. Yes, if I really wanted more money, and am willing to make it at the expense of society, I could jack up the price until demand meets existing supply. But again, that is my decision, not the decision of some abstract concept named "demand".
      - thriftwy 3y ago
        You will realistically never jack up price anywhere far when competing against AliExpress. You can sell some of these exclusive widgets for $4 instead of $1 but getting leads would cost you these $3.
      - emiliobumachar 3y ago
        How would you decide which hopeful customer gets it? A line? Draw sticks? Willingness to do chores for you? Ostensive praise? If I really want the widged but really can't stand in line for long enough, is it okay to hire someone to wait in line for me? How about a programmer to make a bot to constantly refresh your website so that I don't have to? Two bots?
        carlosjobim 3y ago
        Since the conversation is real estate, it's not hard to decide to sell to a young person or couple from your own community that you know well, that went to school with your kids or works in the same place as you. Or you can sell to the highest bidder, maybe a foreign investor.
        nonethewiser 3y ago
        When you own a rental property you can do that, but if we're talking about people in general you have to assume they'll be rational.
        ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    So home owners are to blame for the massively imbalanced housing supply/demand, and not the government who not just allowed but actively enabled that imbalance to happen in the first place? Interesting thought process. So the local gas station owner is also to blame for the increase in gas price and destroying the community and not the global supply/demand, right? Also the local bread maker, etc.
    - carlosjobim 3y ago
      Landlords do not raise their rents because their own costs increase, unlike a gas station or any other sector of the economy. Landlords put the rent as high as they can get away with and are then very happy if people blame other people for it, for example digital nomads. Home sellers equally sell their homes as expensive as they can and if the local work force can't afford a home then fuck them, they should move away or pay a land lord and stay broke. That's what most people think. But it's ridiculous to then blame the consequences on politicians or foreigners. Businesses on the other hand have their own costs that dictates what they have to charge to remain in business. And they go out of business if they can't balance that. A land lord never goes out of business. A home owner can abandon his real estate for decades without losing it. There's a huge difference to businesses. An example similar to real estate is natural resources, such as oil and gas. They generate enormous profit compared to investments and cost of operation. Some nations chose to let a few interests take those profits, some nations give their citizens cheap or free gas, some nations invest the profits into large funds and et cetera. There are different ways of doing things. Wherever you live right now, people did things differently in the past, especially when it comes to real estate.
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        >Landlords do not raise their rents because their own costs increase Their cost definitely increases if the property is on mortgage and their rates went up. Also cost in maintenance increase and taxes as well. All those increases for the landlord will directly go into the price of rent for the tenant. They also raise their prices because of supply/demand so someone comes and is willing to pay more. What are you gonna do, say no to more money? The private rental market is still a business and not a charity. Only the public housing is there to cater to the needs of the people and not for profit making. Have you voted for the construction of more public housing?
  - jncfhnb 3y ago
    Wealthy immigrants often become the landowners
  - alchemist1e9 3y ago
    Was any market fundamentals or economics covered in the education you received? Topics like supply and demand and price signals.
- fuzzbazz 3y ago
  The demand in the housing market will fall soon, according to the population pyramid.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    Housing prices (in economically productive regions) are completely decupled from the birth/death driven demographics. I'm from a country with a demographics falling off the cliff, like Germany but worse, and just like Germany, housing prices (where jobs are) have went nowhere but up at a steep rate beyond wage growth, because housing is not a fixed pie for whom now less people are competing due to increased deaths vs births, because for a few decades now, it's no longer just people competing for housing against the other people, but piles of money competing against other piles of money, and the bigger piles are winning(aka investors). If you expect housing to get cheaper because less babys will be born, you'll be in a rude awakening. If you want housing to go down you need to decouple it from investments because otherwise, all the levers will be pulled by the governments and banks to make sure that line only goes up regardless of demographics. "Too few babies are being born? No problem, we'll just market those houses to foreign investors. Problem solved. Line goes up now."
    - laszlojamf 3y ago
      I agree that housing prices are somewhat decoupled from local population trends, but at the end of the day _someone_ has to live on the property for it to be worth anything. In order for the speculation to pay off, somebody, at the end of the day has to pay for it to use it, otherwise it's just a ponzi scheme. It might take a long time, but at some point the chickens will come home to roost. Or roast...
      - lifestyleguru 3y ago
        > but at the end of the day _someone_ has to live on the property for it to be worth anything Have you seen the old city center of Prague in Czechia? or any old city center in any major city in Europe. These numbers only go up.
- KptMarchewa 3y ago
  Few thousands or tens of thousands of people are not something that can move the housing market that much.
  - jimmydorry 3y ago
    It all comes down to how quickly new living spaces are made. The common theme in all of the most expensive cities of the world is the supply of new housing being vastly lower than the demand. 10,000 people may not seem like a lot, but if there are only 5,000 new residences coming on the market a year, this is a problem that will quickly compound.
- bjornsing 3y ago
  Not sure South Koreans are worried about rising housing prices. They have terrible demographics long term.
PierceJoy 3y ago
Unfortunately, it doesn’t allay the complaints of driving up the cost of housing for locals. I’m not sure if this is a problem for bigger cities, but there’s been increasing criticism by locals in ski towns and resort cities of remote workers coming in with much higher incomes than local companies can provide and consequently pricing out locals from housing.

cassianoleal 3y ago

> seems to allay the complaint of taking local jobs and consuming local social services The fact that the visa doesn't allow application to local jobs is enough to stop the first complaint on its tracks. I wonder how they intend to deal with the seemingly inevitable rise in housing prices that comes with an influx of high earners.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
carlosjobim 3y ago
Increasing rents and house prices is 100% to blame the owner/seller. If you want to destroy your own community for your personal gain you can't blame anybody else. Almost 100% of the population thinks it is right for home sellers and landlords to squeeze out as much as they can. Then blame somebody else for the consequences.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  If you increase demand prices go up. Not the sellers fault.
  - thfuran 3y ago
    They're saying that the sellers should just choose to sell for less.
    - nonethewiser 3y ago
      Yeah and women should pick mates based off video game skills. It's a human behavior which could theoretically be changed but wont be because it's irrational and unique to one person's perverse interests that none of the rational actors understand. Or maybe we could get the government to enforce this person's interests on everyone.
    - thriftwy 3y ago
      There would be insufficient supply on the market then. How is that better? I've heard they show an apartment to 20 competing prospective tenants at once in Switzerland. I can't begin to imagine how much 20 wasted work hours cost there, and number of such previews per deal grows at least linearly, hence the whole thing grows quadratically. I also see how it should destroy one's chances to rent any property if they deviate even slightly from the ideal tenant. A mixed ethnic family? Reject. Small child? Reject. Small business owner? Reject!
      - alchemist1e9 3y ago
        This thread of comments is yet another in an endless number on HN where somehow socialists and collectivists come out and to me the most disappointing part is that it’s evidence of deep failure in education systems that they can educate people well enough to be technically literate and engage on HN, but at the same time are fundamentally economically illiterate. It’s disturbing and frankly dangerous. Socialism is the most failed idea in human history yet it continues to persist and in my opinion it’s a bit like not teaching evolution in schools, omitting to educate about some fundamental nature of reality.
        FredPret 3y ago
        I've often wondered about this. I think one reason for this is that the Soviet Union started infiltrating Western institutions about a century ago. This extremely long-ranged strategy is still churning out results, even after they went belly-up. It's the kind of phenomenon that sustains itself - what conservative would ever consider becoming an academic in this environment? And from there it spreads downward. It's also very helpful that the social "sciences" don't have a direct feedback loop to reality, so it's possible for large numbers of them to have completely kooky ideas for decades on end. https://repository.usfca.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1000&context=rl_fac https://repository.usfca.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=100... https://www.theguardian.com/education/2005/jul/01/schools.uk https://www.theguardian.com/education/2005/jul/01/schools.uk
  - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
    If I want to sell a widget for a dollar, I can sell it for a dollar. Demand doesn't force me to do anything I don't want to do. Especially when I know that selling it for a dollar would cover costs and net me profit. Yes, if I really wanted more money, and am willing to make it at the expense of society, I could jack up the price until demand meets existing supply. But again, that is my decision, not the decision of some abstract concept named "demand".
    - thriftwy 3y ago
      You will realistically never jack up price anywhere far when competing against AliExpress. You can sell some of these exclusive widgets for $4 instead of $1 but getting leads would cost you these $3.
    - emiliobumachar 3y ago
      How would you decide which hopeful customer gets it? A line? Draw sticks? Willingness to do chores for you? Ostensive praise? If I really want the widged but really can't stand in line for long enough, is it okay to hire someone to wait in line for me? How about a programmer to make a bot to constantly refresh your website so that I don't have to? Two bots?
      - carlosjobim 3y ago
        Since the conversation is real estate, it's not hard to decide to sell to a young person or couple from your own community that you know well, that went to school with your kids or works in the same place as you. Or you can sell to the highest bidder, maybe a foreign investor.
        nonethewiser 3y ago
        When you own a rental property you can do that, but if we're talking about people in general you have to assume they'll be rational.
      - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  So home owners are to blame for the massively imbalanced housing supply/demand, and not the government who not just allowed but actively enabled that imbalance to happen in the first place? Interesting thought process. So the local gas station owner is also to blame for the increase in gas price and destroying the community and not the global supply/demand, right? Also the local bread maker, etc.
  - carlosjobim 3y ago
    Landlords do not raise their rents because their own costs increase, unlike a gas station or any other sector of the economy. Landlords put the rent as high as they can get away with and are then very happy if people blame other people for it, for example digital nomads. Home sellers equally sell their homes as expensive as they can and if the local work force can't afford a home then fuck them, they should move away or pay a land lord and stay broke. That's what most people think. But it's ridiculous to then blame the consequences on politicians or foreigners. Businesses on the other hand have their own costs that dictates what they have to charge to remain in business. And they go out of business if they can't balance that. A land lord never goes out of business. A home owner can abandon his real estate for decades without losing it. There's a huge difference to businesses. An example similar to real estate is natural resources, such as oil and gas. They generate enormous profit compared to investments and cost of operation. Some nations chose to let a few interests take those profits, some nations give their citizens cheap or free gas, some nations invest the profits into large funds and et cetera. There are different ways of doing things. Wherever you live right now, people did things differently in the past, especially when it comes to real estate.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      >Landlords do not raise their rents because their own costs increase Their cost definitely increases if the property is on mortgage and their rates went up. Also cost in maintenance increase and taxes as well. All those increases for the landlord will directly go into the price of rent for the tenant. They also raise their prices because of supply/demand so someone comes and is willing to pay more. What are you gonna do, say no to more money? The private rental market is still a business and not a charity. Only the public housing is there to cater to the needs of the people and not for profit making. Have you voted for the construction of more public housing?
- jncfhnb 3y ago
  Wealthy immigrants often become the landowners
- alchemist1e9 3y ago
  Was any market fundamentals or economics covered in the education you received? Topics like supply and demand and price signals.
fuzzbazz 3y ago
The demand in the housing market will fall soon, according to the population pyramid.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  Housing prices (in economically productive regions) are completely decupled from the birth/death driven demographics. I'm from a country with a demographics falling off the cliff, like Germany but worse, and just like Germany, housing prices (where jobs are) have went nowhere but up at a steep rate beyond wage growth, because housing is not a fixed pie for whom now less people are competing due to increased deaths vs births, because for a few decades now, it's no longer just people competing for housing against the other people, but piles of money competing against other piles of money, and the bigger piles are winning(aka investors). If you expect housing to get cheaper because less babys will be born, you'll be in a rude awakening. If you want housing to go down you need to decouple it from investments because otherwise, all the levers will be pulled by the governments and banks to make sure that line only goes up regardless of demographics. "Too few babies are being born? No problem, we'll just market those houses to foreign investors. Problem solved. Line goes up now."
  - laszlojamf 3y ago
    I agree that housing prices are somewhat decoupled from local population trends, but at the end of the day _someone_ has to live on the property for it to be worth anything. In order for the speculation to pay off, somebody, at the end of the day has to pay for it to use it, otherwise it's just a ponzi scheme. It might take a long time, but at some point the chickens will come home to roost. Or roast...
    - lifestyleguru 3y ago
      > but at the end of the day _someone_ has to live on the property for it to be worth anything Have you seen the old city center of Prague in Czechia? or any old city center in any major city in Europe. These numbers only go up.
KptMarchewa 3y ago
Few thousands or tens of thousands of people are not something that can move the housing market that much.
- jimmydorry 3y ago
  It all comes down to how quickly new living spaces are made. The common theme in all of the most expensive cities of the world is the supply of new housing being vastly lower than the demand. 10,000 people may not seem like a lot, but if there are only 5,000 new residences coming on the market a year, this is a problem that will quickly compound.
bjornsing 3y ago
Not sure South Koreans are worried about rising housing prices. They have terrible demographics long term.

PierceJoy 3y ago

Unfortunately, it doesn’t allay the complaints of driving up the cost of housing for locals. I’m not sure if this is a problem for bigger cities, but there’s been increasing criticism by locals in ski towns and resort cities of remote workers coming in with much higher incomes than local companies can provide and consequently pricing out locals from housing.