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I am a person outside of apple ecosystem that has to use iPhone and occasionally iPad for work. Question : how do you manage your files? My wife hears a prime

I am a person outside of apple ecosystem that has to use iPhone and occasionally iPad for work. Question : how do you manage your files? My wife hears a primeval scream from our home office every 3 months when I determine to try to get files off my iPhone (voice memos, photos, downloads, whatever) or God forbid put files on. Even worse screams when I try to manage files on device such as "delete all photos" (cannot.be.done). And I degenerate into gurgles when I try to find or manage different files (a downloaded jpeg is "not" a photo and cannot be found via photos app,has been my bitterly learned experience. Because reasons). I know modern generations are more comfy outside of hierarchical folder / file structure and treat their device like a massive database, which, fine in principle. But after 4 years of iphone usage I still see it as a massive black hole where files go in but don't come out. So I... Cringe with terrified shakes when people talk about iPads for work. How do your organize your files on them? How do you manage and transfer and version control? Or am I a dinosaur and everybody's files are emephereally in the google or apple cloud and it's just not a problem, things are magically right and where they need to be?

matwood 3y ago
For photos, either Photos app or Lightroom cloud is what I have used. I have a usb-c sd card reader that I use to upload photos onto the iPad. From there they end up on all my devices. The nice thing is this works if I instead upload them onto my MBP or took pictures with my iPhone. For files, iCloud has worked fine. Personally, I don't want to think about moving files from one device to another. I want them available on all devices regardless of where they were created/added.
oblio 3y ago
No, people just suffer in silence. There are famous Youtubers like MKBHD that more or less every year say: "The new iPad is great, the hardware is awesome, I use the iPad a ton, but I can't use it to replace a laptop because of the lack of file management/window management/...". I have heard this text in similar forms for at least 3 years. You can make do, but it is as awkward as you'd expect. The only winning entity is Apple, that gets people to also buy laptops and to be even more locked into this crippled setup, since as you said, younger generations aren't as aware of the possibilities, anymore.
- teaearlgraycold 3y ago
  I don’t think MacOS is a crippled system. Agreed that trying to use an iPad as a primary device is torture. But, compared to Windows, MacOS is comparably accommodating of my needs as a developer.
  - rjzzleep 3y ago
    Is it though? I mean, I do remember the same, but I just booted into Win 11 after buying a GPD Win and it looks nice. Microsoft seems to have resigned itself to the fact that as a developer you should use WSL2. If you do any kind of docker related development you will inevitably install something similar to WSL2 using docker desktop or whatever. Technically it now supports native containers, but we're not there yet.
    - nottorp 3y ago
      WSL2 is also a virtual machine isn't it? It virtualizes x86 linux on x86 windows, kinda seamlessly, but still that's all it is.
      - rjzzleep 3y ago
        Which is exactly what docker desktop on macOS does as well. Unless you're doing iOS or macOS development, contrary to common belief WSL2 is actually integrated better than it's mac counterparts. You can even mount other linux partitions into WSL.
        nottorp 3y ago
        Docker desktop is a piece of crap on macOS. It allocates half your ram for a linux VM and then allocates other linux VMs inside it. If you're doing servers, that's 7+ Gb of ram wasted since your work VMs will at most use hundreds of megabytes. I sure hope WSL does better :)
        3y ago
jxdxbx 3y ago
I manage files on my iPad (and iPhone) with Files and iCloud Drive. It’s been around for a while! The problem is that many apps are still stuck in 2015. But for apps that support it, using the Files file picker is no different than using the Mac file picker and Finder. You open files, you save them, they sync. Some apps do default to their own folder in iCloud Drive, but that folder can be accessed by any other app and is also available on the desktop. Sadly third-party support for Files plugins is not what it should be (Google Drive is so incomplete I don’t know why they even bother). The major cloud services want you using their apps, I guess. But Secure Shellfish does it perfectly so my Windows media server is available as a “file system” on my iPhone and iPad via SFTP.
overstay8930 3y ago
Why would you use an iPhone if you don't want to use iCloud? That is the entire point of buying into the Apple ecosystem.
- r3d0c 3y ago
  so you have to pay apple an ongoing fee to be able to manage your own files? does that seem rational? also such a weird line of thought that buying a single apple product isn't enough to be able to use it properly, and that any criticism of apple is just "us plebs using it wrong and not paying them more money"
  - DavidPastrnak 3y ago
    You don’t have to pay Apple to manage your files. You can manage them with a traditional file manager if you’d like akin to any other device. If you want cloud storage, Apple provides free iCloud storage that will keep everything synced across your devices. There is an upper limit to the free tier space, at which you can purchase additional storage or move to a cloud platform of your choice.
    - nottorp 3y ago
      Considering how much of a premium you pay for the iPhones, that upper limit is stingy like hell. And Apple's marketing ain't great either. They push your photos to iCloud by default, which fills the free space instantly, then when you try to turn that off they give you a vague and threatening message that your photos will be lost. Marketing by threats will make me to at best give money to the competition.
      - DavidPastrnak 3y ago
        Do you have the text from the message that says all of your photos will be lost? I’ve never seen it.
        nottorp 3y ago
alberth 3y ago
iCloud. Dropbox is a close 2nd, but won’t do everything you described (like download folder) - but iCloud will.
- r3d0c 3y ago
  pay apple again to be able to manage your own files, lol..
  - alberth 3y ago
    iCloud is free (up to 5GB). That seems fair. https://www.apple.com/icloud/#:~:text=Is%20there%20a%20free%20version,devices%20and%20at%20iCloud.com https://www.apple.com/icloud/#:~:text=Is%20there%20a%20free%.... Which mobile platform provides unlimited/better for no cost?
    - InCityDreams 3y ago
      >Which mobile platform provides unlimited/better for no cost? Could you explain how it is free? I mean, could it be possible that the actual cost of the 'free' icloud is built into the prices/ cost of the device(s) you originally purchased (so that you can store your stuff in the icloud)?
    - smoldesu 3y ago
      > Which mobile platform provides unlimited/better for no cost? For one, Android. I use Syncthing; my phone reports that I've synced 27gb of local state to my PC and laptop without me paying a dime. Caveat being, you have to use a mobile platform that doesn't prevent third-parties from integrating with the OS. iCloud's quality is almost besides the point when Apple uses their software control to ensure a feature-complete alternative can't exist.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - ylk 3y ago
DavidPastrnak 3y ago
icloud keeps everything synced across my devices seamlessly - M1 Air, iPhone, and iPad.
zx8080 3y ago
Why do you need files out? Just buy more iCloud storage. Or how is it supposed to work in iEcoSystem?
- NikolaNovak 3y ago
  I assume you're sarcastic but I already pay for Icloud and it doesn't help me meaningfully manage files or move them out of apple ecosystem :-(
GeekyBear 3y ago
The Files app can connect to various cloud services / local servers by adding locations. For example, you can add a location for a folder shared via SMB from your Windows based computer. https://osxdaily.com/2019/11/04/how-connect-smb-share-iphone-ipad-files-app/ https://osxdaily.com/2019/11/04/how-connect-smb-share-iphone...
TheCoreh 3y ago
The Files app allows storing files locally, and mounting network shares. You can also seamlessly copy and paste files (via handoff) between macOS and iOS. I typically just hit Cmd+C on the Mac and long press+Paste on Files on the iPhone. If you are using the iPad with an external mouse or trackpad you can also drag and drop it directly to the Mac. As for the distinction between random JPEG files and the Photos app, I think that's actually quite good. I don't get my gallery littered with random images, and it also supports non destructive editing, among other features. Moving between the two is also fairly easy, you can use the Share sheet or just drag and drop. The one thing I would change is that screenshots end up in Photos.app by default, I'd rather have them go to Files.
- NikolaNovak 3y ago
  Thx for your reply! >> As for the distinction between random JPEG files and the Photos app, I think that's actually quite good. Please don't take this personally, but that always terrifies me. It's like modern apple owner "sour grapes" fable - "I actually love this random limits tion, it makes my life much easier " and I hear it a lot! If I right click and save photo in some apps or websites it is in photos app, but in random other apps that same file is no longer a photo. How's that good? There are a million ways to "not clutter" that are better. Folder might be one but if that's anathema, then albums or tags. It's a completely random subset of things that end up being photos vs not, seemingly based on location or tags that arr neither visible or accessible to me as a user. I get that this is "good" for some people, I am clearly not in that group though. Re ease of copying files, does any of that work if you don't have a Mac? Context of conversation here is iPhone / iPad as independent working devices and ability to transfer files without a Mac OS device. I am readily convinced that if I bought whole heartedly into apple ecosystem and only apple,my life would be easier along some axis, but that's not a life I lead - I have the black box of iphone and I cannot for example delete all photos on it in any way that I could find including in the app, in the settings, via apple support or apple store creepily smiling people :-/.
  - TheCoreh 3y ago
    Not taking it personally, :-) I 100% understand why you might also prefer it the other way. The weird "some apps save it to Photos while others save it to Files" situation is a consequence of Files being a relatively late addition to the iOS ecosystem. A lot of apps are poorly maintained, use some cross platform framework that doesn't support the Files feature well, or the developers are simply unaware of the distinction. It will probably get better over time. One thing Apple could do in the mean time is to also expose Photos as a folder view inside of Files (they do this on macOS, to some extent, on the file pickers. I've never actually used it) Re: Transferring it to a PC, the one thing that won't work is the seamless copy and paste via handoff. You can plug in a USB stick into an iPad or iPhone (using an adapter for pre-15 models, or if the USB stick is USB-A) formatted as exFAT and it should just work. AFAIK, there isn't a single button to delete all photos, probably to avoid people doing it accidentally. You'll need to manually select all photos and hit delete. Or you can also write a small script via the Shortcuts app to delete them for you.
PlunderBunny 3y ago
Re: delete all photos, did you know that - if you are viewing a list of photos in an ‘album’ - you can click the Select button at the top right corner of the screen and then drag-select all the files? It’s quite tricky to do - you have to tap to select the first file, then touch and immediately drag to do the second file onwards. Took me years to discover this by accident - it’s the most fiddly/weird/hidden feature in an operating system that has become increasingly full of them.
- NikolaNovak 3y ago
  I thank you for your reply, but are you trying to tell me drag selecting 50k photos is the way to go? (And if people start screaming "why do you have 50k on your phone??!?", I'll start screaming right back "because I cannot offload or manage or delete them!!!" :-)
jahewson 3y ago
> Or am I a dinosaur and everybody's files are emephereally in the google or apple cloud and it's just not a problem, things are magically right and where they need to be? Yep! Use iCloud and unburden yourself from ever thinking about files again.
callalex 3y ago
I have a shared iCloud folder with my dad with a few .mp4s in it that will consistently cause a hard crash on any iOS device by just…viewing the folder in Files. It crashes so hard that the entire system locks up and you can’t close the app, and holding down the power button doesn’t work to restart. You have to wait for the device to actually overheat and then shut itself off to cool down before you can bring it up again.
AnonymousPlanet 3y ago
I use KDE-Connect. Connects my Linux desktop and any Android or iOS device. It's originally a Linux Application but runs on Windows and MacOS as well. You can send/receive files, photos, clipboard, notifications etc. On Linux I can also use it to control media and use my phone as mouse or keyboard. The pairing is painless via QR-Code. You decide what is shared and what isn't. It works directly over your local network. No cloud servers are involved.

matwood 3y ago

For photos, either Photos app or Lightroom cloud is what I have used. I have a usb-c sd card reader that I use to upload photos onto the iPad. From there they end up on all my devices. The nice thing is this works if I instead upload them onto my MBP or took pictures with my iPhone. For files, iCloud has worked fine. Personally, I don't want to think about moving files from one device to another. I want them available on all devices regardless of where they were created/added.

oblio 3y ago

No, people just suffer in silence. There are famous Youtubers like MKBHD that more or less every year say: "The new iPad is great, the hardware is awesome, I use the iPad a ton, but I can't use it to replace a laptop because of the lack of file management/window management/...". I have heard this text in similar forms for at least 3 years. You can make do, but it is as awkward as you'd expect. The only winning entity is Apple, that gets people to also buy laptops and to be even more locked into this crippled setup, since as you said, younger generations aren't as aware of the possibilities, anymore.

teaearlgraycold 3y ago
I don’t think MacOS is a crippled system. Agreed that trying to use an iPad as a primary device is torture. But, compared to Windows, MacOS is comparably accommodating of my needs as a developer.
- rjzzleep 3y ago
  Is it though? I mean, I do remember the same, but I just booted into Win 11 after buying a GPD Win and it looks nice. Microsoft seems to have resigned itself to the fact that as a developer you should use WSL2. If you do any kind of docker related development you will inevitably install something similar to WSL2 using docker desktop or whatever. Technically it now supports native containers, but we're not there yet.
  - nottorp 3y ago
    WSL2 is also a virtual machine isn't it? It virtualizes x86 linux on x86 windows, kinda seamlessly, but still that's all it is.
    - rjzzleep 3y ago
      Which is exactly what docker desktop on macOS does as well. Unless you're doing iOS or macOS development, contrary to common belief WSL2 is actually integrated better than it's mac counterparts. You can even mount other linux partitions into WSL.
      - nottorp 3y ago
        Docker desktop is a piece of crap on macOS. It allocates half your ram for a linux VM and then allocates other linux VMs inside it. If you're doing servers, that's 7+ Gb of ram wasted since your work VMs will at most use hundreds of megabytes. I sure hope WSL does better :)
        3y ago

jxdxbx 3y ago

I manage files on my iPad (and iPhone) with Files and iCloud Drive. It’s been around for a while! The problem is that many apps are still stuck in 2015. But for apps that support it, using the Files file picker is no different than using the Mac file picker and Finder. You open files, you save them, they sync. Some apps do default to their own folder in iCloud Drive, but that folder can be accessed by any other app and is also available on the desktop. Sadly third-party support for Files plugins is not what it should be (Google Drive is so incomplete I don’t know why they even bother). The major cloud services want you using their apps, I guess. But Secure Shellfish does it perfectly so my Windows media server is available as a “file system” on my iPhone and iPad via SFTP.

overstay8930 3y ago

Why would you use an iPhone if you don't want to use iCloud? That is the entire point of buying into the Apple ecosystem.

r3d0c 3y ago
so you have to pay apple an ongoing fee to be able to manage your own files? does that seem rational? also such a weird line of thought that buying a single apple product isn't enough to be able to use it properly, and that any criticism of apple is just "us plebs using it wrong and not paying them more money"
- DavidPastrnak 3y ago
  You don’t have to pay Apple to manage your files. You can manage them with a traditional file manager if you’d like akin to any other device. If you want cloud storage, Apple provides free iCloud storage that will keep everything synced across your devices. There is an upper limit to the free tier space, at which you can purchase additional storage or move to a cloud platform of your choice.
  - nottorp 3y ago
    Considering how much of a premium you pay for the iPhones, that upper limit is stingy like hell. And Apple's marketing ain't great either. They push your photos to iCloud by default, which fills the free space instantly, then when you try to turn that off they give you a vague and threatening message that your photos will be lost. Marketing by threats will make me to at best give money to the competition.
    - DavidPastrnak 3y ago
      Do you have the text from the message that says all of your photos will be lost? I’ve never seen it.
      - nottorp 3y ago

alberth 3y ago

iCloud. Dropbox is a close 2nd, but won’t do everything you described (like download folder) - but iCloud will.

r3d0c 3y ago
pay apple again to be able to manage your own files, lol..
- alberth 3y ago
  iCloud is free (up to 5GB). That seems fair. https://www.apple.com/icloud/#:~:text=Is%20there%20a%20free%20version,devices%20and%20at%20iCloud.com https://www.apple.com/icloud/#:~:text=Is%20there%20a%20free%.... Which mobile platform provides unlimited/better for no cost?
  - InCityDreams 3y ago
    >Which mobile platform provides unlimited/better for no cost? Could you explain how it is free? I mean, could it be possible that the actual cost of the 'free' icloud is built into the prices/ cost of the device(s) you originally purchased (so that you can store your stuff in the icloud)?
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    > Which mobile platform provides unlimited/better for no cost? For one, Android. I use Syncthing; my phone reports that I've synced 27gb of local state to my PC and laptop without me paying a dime. Caveat being, you have to use a mobile platform that doesn't prevent third-parties from integrating with the OS. iCloud's quality is almost besides the point when Apple uses their software control to ensure a feature-complete alternative can't exist.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - ylk 3y ago

DavidPastrnak 3y ago

icloud keeps everything synced across my devices seamlessly - M1 Air, iPhone, and iPad.

zx8080 3y ago

Why do you need files out? Just buy more iCloud storage. Or how is it supposed to work in iEcoSystem?

NikolaNovak 3y ago
I assume you're sarcastic but I already pay for Icloud and it doesn't help me meaningfully manage files or move them out of apple ecosystem :-(

GeekyBear 3y ago

The Files app can connect to various cloud services / local servers by adding locations. For example, you can add a location for a folder shared via SMB from your Windows based computer. https://osxdaily.com/2019/11/04/how-connect-smb-share-iphone-ipad-files-app/ https://osxdaily.com/2019/11/04/how-connect-smb-share-iphone...

TheCoreh 3y ago

The Files app allows storing files locally, and mounting network shares. You can also seamlessly copy and paste files (via handoff) between macOS and iOS. I typically just hit Cmd+C on the Mac and long press+Paste on Files on the iPhone. If you are using the iPad with an external mouse or trackpad you can also drag and drop it directly to the Mac. As for the distinction between random JPEG files and the Photos app, I think that's actually quite good. I don't get my gallery littered with random images, and it also supports non destructive editing, among other features. Moving between the two is also fairly easy, you can use the Share sheet or just drag and drop. The one thing I would change is that screenshots end up in Photos.app by default, I'd rather have them go to Files.

NikolaNovak 3y ago
Thx for your reply! >> As for the distinction between random JPEG files and the Photos app, I think that's actually quite good. Please don't take this personally, but that always terrifies me. It's like modern apple owner "sour grapes" fable - "I actually love this random limits tion, it makes my life much easier " and I hear it a lot! If I right click and save photo in some apps or websites it is in photos app, but in random other apps that same file is no longer a photo. How's that good? There are a million ways to "not clutter" that are better. Folder might be one but if that's anathema, then albums or tags. It's a completely random subset of things that end up being photos vs not, seemingly based on location or tags that arr neither visible or accessible to me as a user. I get that this is "good" for some people, I am clearly not in that group though. Re ease of copying files, does any of that work if you don't have a Mac? Context of conversation here is iPhone / iPad as independent working devices and ability to transfer files without a Mac OS device. I am readily convinced that if I bought whole heartedly into apple ecosystem and only apple,my life would be easier along some axis, but that's not a life I lead - I have the black box of iphone and I cannot for example delete all photos on it in any way that I could find including in the app, in the settings, via apple support or apple store creepily smiling people :-/.
- TheCoreh 3y ago
  Not taking it personally, :-) I 100% understand why you might also prefer it the other way. The weird "some apps save it to Photos while others save it to Files" situation is a consequence of Files being a relatively late addition to the iOS ecosystem. A lot of apps are poorly maintained, use some cross platform framework that doesn't support the Files feature well, or the developers are simply unaware of the distinction. It will probably get better over time. One thing Apple could do in the mean time is to also expose Photos as a folder view inside of Files (they do this on macOS, to some extent, on the file pickers. I've never actually used it) Re: Transferring it to a PC, the one thing that won't work is the seamless copy and paste via handoff. You can plug in a USB stick into an iPad or iPhone (using an adapter for pre-15 models, or if the USB stick is USB-A) formatted as exFAT and it should just work. AFAIK, there isn't a single button to delete all photos, probably to avoid people doing it accidentally. You'll need to manually select all photos and hit delete. Or you can also write a small script via the Shortcuts app to delete them for you.

PlunderBunny 3y ago

Re: delete all photos, did you know that - if you are viewing a list of photos in an ‘album’ - you can click the Select button at the top right corner of the screen and then drag-select all the files? It’s quite tricky to do - you have to tap to select the first file, then touch and immediately drag to do the second file onwards. Took me years to discover this by accident - it’s the most fiddly/weird/hidden feature in an operating system that has become increasingly full of them.

NikolaNovak 3y ago
I thank you for your reply, but are you trying to tell me drag selecting 50k photos is the way to go? (And if people start screaming "why do you have 50k on your phone??!?", I'll start screaming right back "because I cannot offload or manage or delete them!!!" :-)

jahewson 3y ago

> Or am I a dinosaur and everybody's files are emephereally in the google or apple cloud and it's just not a problem, things are magically right and where they need to be? Yep! Use iCloud and unburden yourself from ever thinking about files again.

callalex 3y ago

I have a shared iCloud folder with my dad with a few .mp4s in it that will consistently cause a hard crash on any iOS device by just…viewing the folder in Files. It crashes so hard that the entire system locks up and you can’t close the app, and holding down the power button doesn’t work to restart. You have to wait for the device to actually overheat and then shut itself off to cool down before you can bring it up again.

AnonymousPlanet 3y ago

I use KDE-Connect. Connects my Linux desktop and any Android or iOS device. It's originally a Linux Application but runs on Windows and MacOS as well. You can send/receive files, photos, clipboard, notifications etc. On Linux I can also use it to control media and use my phone as mouse or keyboard. The pairing is painless via QR-Code. You decide what is shared and what isn't. It works directly over your local network. No cloud servers are involved.