6 ms·

In many ways, an iPad with a keyboard is probably the perfect home computer for people who don't really care about computers and just have simple requirements.

In many ways, an iPad with a keyboard is probably the perfect home computer for people who don't really care about computers and just have simple requirements. The apps that people generally expect to find are there and a keyboard just makes it that bit more comfortable to sit and bash out an email or letter.

chongli 3y ago
Yeah not to mention it’s way easier to use than macOS. Macs used to be so easy to use on Classic Mac OS. Mac OS X really left a lot of people behind on the usability front. It became much more of a power user OS. Then iPads came along and stole that group (of ordinary users) away. But now it seems they’re adding more and more power user features to iOS, complicating things again (with even less discoverability due to complex gestures). History seems to be repeating itself.
- user_7832 3y ago
  As someone who’s never used MacOS fulltime, what did OS9 do better than X? I’ve found modern MacOS fairly similar to windows in common tasks and interface.
  - nottorp 3y ago
    That's the problem. For example modern MacOS has in your face notifications and allows applications in the background to steal focus. I gather classic Mac OS was done so you can get on with whatever you're doing and nothing bothered you.
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      This is easily remedied. https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/turn-a-focus-on-or-off-mchl999b7c1a/mac https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/turn-a-focus-on-or-...
      - nottorp 3y ago
        No. It should be the default. And I bet it only refers to notifications, not to other applications stealing focus (as in bring themselves to the foreground) from the one you're into because they think they're damn important.
        raccoonDivider 3y ago
        Do Not Disturb by default is a question of taste and use case, they probably brought to the desktop what people seemed to like on mobile devices. Applications stealing focus is a plague though. Maybe Apple will finally figure out that it's not worth having in their API.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - neilalexander 3y ago
    Going somewhat off-topic here but classic Mac OS had very precise human interface guidelines[1] which strongly emphasised repeatable behaviours and recognisable patterns. For that matter, so did earlier versions of Windows[2]. A lot of thought went into visual cues and design elements so that things looked and acted predictably system-wide and they were designed so that it would always be obvious which elements were and weren't interactive. Both Apple and Microsoft have regressed in this respect. Minimalism and prettiness have taken priority over usability in both modern macOS and modern Windows and they are far more inconsistent and harder to learn to use as a result. Often something that you learn in one place place or app now doesn't work in another. In Apple's case this has been mostly as a result of their efforts to make macOS and iOS more alike and to share applications/components across the two, which often creates weird-feeling results and awkward app designs. In Microsoft's case this is mostly because they have more UI frameworks than sense and each new one introduces more problems than solutions. Electron-adjacent apps probably don't help matters either, since they also generally break all of the platform rules and implement their own UI controls anyway. [1] https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.5555/573097 https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.5555/573097 [2] https://ics.uci.edu/~kobsa/courses/ICS104/course-notes/Microsoft_WindowsGuidelines.pdf https://ics.uci.edu/~kobsa/courses/ICS104/course-notes/Micro...
  - chongli 3y ago
    The Classic Mac OS Finder used a spatial metaphor. When Apple moved to OS X, they copied Windows by switching to a browser metaphor [1]. For many Classic fans this was Apple's biggest mistake. Ever since then people generally go out of their way to avoid using the Finder altogether because it's so unpredictable and opaque. [1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2003/04/finder/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2003/04/finder/
beeboobaa 3y ago
Sure, if you want to breed even more generations of computer illiterates. We should be encouraging people to learn about the computers they use so they can do actually useful stuff with it later in their life. Not just "hey here's an app, now go make me more money by looking at ads"
- matwood 3y ago
  Someone using their phone or tablet with a keyboard to get things done is far from computer illiterate. For the majority of the population computers are a tool. Knowing deeply how they work is about as important as knowing deeply how their car works.
  - beeboobaa 3y ago
    If all they ever have access to is phones then their world consists solely of software they have been allowed to install by their platform overlords. Even if they had the urge to try and create something themselves, they would be forbidden from doing so. Just keep consuming those ads and don't think about it.
    - anonymousab 3y ago
      > their world consists solely of software they have been allowed to install by their platform overlords The same will be true of most cars within a generation, and is effectively true for most car owners now; they do not really know how to do much with their car beyond drive it, use the infotainment as-is and bring it in for repair when anything seems off.
      - beeboobaa 3y ago
        Yes, everything is being fucked by the drive for profit.
  - nottorp 3y ago
    > Someone using their phone or tablet with a keyboard to get things done ... if you don't get a lot of things done. The main quality of a laptop is the keyboard is solidly attached to the screen. That means you can use it anywhere and you don't need to dedicate a desk like space for the keyboard. With an iPad you need a stand, space for the keyboard and then you're close to the space taken by a monitor with peripherals and a desktop under the desk. Might as well get a desktop then since it's more powerful. It may be useful for tasks that only need a keyboard 1% of the time though.

chongli 3y ago

Yeah not to mention it’s way easier to use than macOS. Macs used to be so easy to use on Classic Mac OS. Mac OS X really left a lot of people behind on the usability front. It became much more of a power user OS. Then iPads came along and stole that group (of ordinary users) away. But now it seems they’re adding more and more power user features to iOS, complicating things again (with even less discoverability due to complex gestures). History seems to be repeating itself.

user_7832 3y ago
As someone who’s never used MacOS fulltime, what did OS9 do better than X? I’ve found modern MacOS fairly similar to windows in common tasks and interface.
- nottorp 3y ago
  That's the problem. For example modern MacOS has in your face notifications and allows applications in the background to steal focus. I gather classic Mac OS was done so you can get on with whatever you're doing and nothing bothered you.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    This is easily remedied. https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/turn-a-focus-on-or-off-mchl999b7c1a/mac https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/turn-a-focus-on-or-...
    - nottorp 3y ago
      No. It should be the default. And I bet it only refers to notifications, not to other applications stealing focus (as in bring themselves to the foreground) from the one you're into because they think they're damn important.
      - raccoonDivider 3y ago
        Do Not Disturb by default is a question of taste and use case, they probably brought to the desktop what people seemed to like on mobile devices. Applications stealing focus is a plague though. Maybe Apple will finally figure out that it's not worth having in their API.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- neilalexander 3y ago
  Going somewhat off-topic here but classic Mac OS had very precise human interface guidelines[1] which strongly emphasised repeatable behaviours and recognisable patterns. For that matter, so did earlier versions of Windows[2]. A lot of thought went into visual cues and design elements so that things looked and acted predictably system-wide and they were designed so that it would always be obvious which elements were and weren't interactive. Both Apple and Microsoft have regressed in this respect. Minimalism and prettiness have taken priority over usability in both modern macOS and modern Windows and they are far more inconsistent and harder to learn to use as a result. Often something that you learn in one place place or app now doesn't work in another. In Apple's case this has been mostly as a result of their efforts to make macOS and iOS more alike and to share applications/components across the two, which often creates weird-feeling results and awkward app designs. In Microsoft's case this is mostly because they have more UI frameworks than sense and each new one introduces more problems than solutions. Electron-adjacent apps probably don't help matters either, since they also generally break all of the platform rules and implement their own UI controls anyway. [1] https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.5555/573097 https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.5555/573097 [2] https://ics.uci.edu/~kobsa/courses/ICS104/course-notes/Microsoft_WindowsGuidelines.pdf https://ics.uci.edu/~kobsa/courses/ICS104/course-notes/Micro...
- chongli 3y ago
  The Classic Mac OS Finder used a spatial metaphor. When Apple moved to OS X, they copied Windows by switching to a browser metaphor [1]. For many Classic fans this was Apple's biggest mistake. Ever since then people generally go out of their way to avoid using the Finder altogether because it's so unpredictable and opaque. [1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2003/04/finder/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2003/04/finder/

beeboobaa 3y ago

Sure, if you want to breed even more generations of computer illiterates. We should be encouraging people to learn about the computers they use so they can do actually useful stuff with it later in their life. Not just "hey here's an app, now go make me more money by looking at ads"

matwood 3y ago
Someone using their phone or tablet with a keyboard to get things done is far from computer illiterate. For the majority of the population computers are a tool. Knowing deeply how they work is about as important as knowing deeply how their car works.
- beeboobaa 3y ago
  If all they ever have access to is phones then their world consists solely of software they have been allowed to install by their platform overlords. Even if they had the urge to try and create something themselves, they would be forbidden from doing so. Just keep consuming those ads and don't think about it.
  - anonymousab 3y ago
    > their world consists solely of software they have been allowed to install by their platform overlords The same will be true of most cars within a generation, and is effectively true for most car owners now; they do not really know how to do much with their car beyond drive it, use the infotainment as-is and bring it in for repair when anything seems off.
    - beeboobaa 3y ago
      Yes, everything is being fucked by the drive for profit.
- nottorp 3y ago
  > Someone using their phone or tablet with a keyboard to get things done ... if you don't get a lot of things done. The main quality of a laptop is the keyboard is solidly attached to the screen. That means you can use it anywhere and you don't need to dedicate a desk like space for the keyboard. With an iPad you need a stand, space for the keyboard and then you're close to the space taken by a monitor with peripherals and a desktop under the desk. Might as well get a desktop then since it's more powerful. It may be useful for tasks that only need a keyboard 1% of the time though.