4 ms·

You don't have to look far, Canada has already implemented a point based system for granting permanent residence to skilled workers. It assigns scores to applic

by xtreme 3y ago

You don't have to look far, Canada has already implemented a point based system for granting permanent residence to skilled workers. It assigns scores to applicants based on education, skills, employment offer, language speaking ability, etc. I believe it can be a good starting point for a more objective selection criteria than the current system which is more based on luck. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/eligibility/criteria-comprehensive-ranking-system/grid.html https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/se...

abduhl 3y ago
Trump attempted to implement a points based system and was met with fierce resistance: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/05/17/key-facts-about-u-s-immigration-policies-and-proposed-changes/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/05/17/key-facts... https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2020/08/06/h-1b-visas-and-trumps-next-merit-based-immigration-plan/?sh=103e459079bd https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2020/08/06/h-1b-...
- stackskipton 3y ago
  Yea, companies using H-1B to hire cheap workers fought the changes hard.
  - rajup 3y ago
    Nah democrats fought it hard because it would “reduce diversity”.
- sunshowers 3y ago
  The utility of a point system is that it makes the criteria legible—the problem wasn't the fact that it was a points system, the problem was in the details of the system. The second link you posted lists a large number of anti-immigrant ideas that Trump had. That was the general tenor of his administration as I personally experienced it: rhetoric about unauthorized immigration, actions against legal immigrants. (I used to be on an H1B and got my green card last year.)
  - abduhl 3y ago
    This is a strange comment to read since, as far as I recall, the only details that were ever really shared before the overall plan was killed due to its political backlash are that it would be merits-based considering age, ability to speak English, job offers, and educational background and that it would shift the number of green cards away from being primarily awarded based on family ties to this new merit system. Democrats rejected even discussing the proposal out of hand. Some quotes from https://apple.news/ABYsQ0lE-RFWj_S5pwuFq5w https://apple.news/ABYsQ0lE-RFWj_S5pwuFq5w : On the other side of the aisle, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) called Trump’s offering a “dead-on-arrival plan that is not a remotely serious proposal.” And Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.) slammed it as a “despicable abdication of moral authority” that would have kept Blumenthal’s own immigrant father from entering the United States. … Democrats on Thursday also took issue with the White House’s characterization of the kind of immigrants who bring “merit” to the United States. “It is really a condescending word,” Pelosi said at her weekly news conference on Thursday morning. “Are they saying family is without merit?”
    - sunshowers 3y ago
      Ah, I was going by the RAISE Act: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAISE_Act#Full_details_of_the_points_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAISE_Act#Full_details_of_the_... The goal of the RAISE Act was to substantially reduce family-based immigration while not increasing employment-based immigration to compensate for that. I didn't realize Trump had his own plan (that was never going to be law anyway). But based on what I actually personally experienced Trump actually do, my Bayesian prior for it being helpful to immigrants is extraordinarily low.
binarymax 3y ago
Same for the UK, the tier-1 visa, which is how I got my first independent visa there. Unfortunately it also gives high points for income, which biases for privileged peoples and origin countries. But if you can get to the UK on a work permit with a high salary for a couple years, then you can apply it as points when you eventually apply. EDIT: just checked and it’s obsolete. Not sure if there is a post-Brexit equivalent. https://www.gov.uk/tier-1-investor https://www.gov.uk/tier-1-investor
klipt 3y ago
Isn't Canada full of foreign PhDs driving taxis because they qualify for permanent residence on points but then can't get jobs because employers want "Canadian work experience"? Canada also has a major housing crisis due to not building enough housing for population growth (which is entirely immigration, Canada's population would shrink without it). Doesn't seem their system works very well in practice. At least the U.S. employer based green card system mostly guarantees that employment green card recipients already have jobs.
- ink_13 3y ago
  > Isn't Canada full of foreign PhDs driving taxis because they qualify for permanent residence on points but then can't get jobs because employers want "Canadian work experience"? Canadian here. Nope.
  - bluedevilzn 3y ago
    Also Canadian here. PhD might be a stretch but there’s absolutely a large number of Uber drivers with a foreign masters.
    - Detrytus 3y ago
      And that makes sense, since in some countries Master’s degrees are dime a dozen. PhD still means something
- givemeethekeys 3y ago
  "Canadian work experience" is a generic reason often given to people who the company doesn't want to hire. It has happened to people I know. There can be many reasons: - Racial bias - Sexual bias - Age bias - Candidate's English / French ability. - Candidate's actual experience isn't relevant enough. - Candidate's personality. - Candidate's appearance. - Candidate's communication skills. Why would I give you the real reason when I can provide a generic reason and stay out of trouble? Some people I know went to college to get local credentials. Luckily community college is affordable and respected. Others changed fields. Others started their first business. A few left the country.

by xtreme 3y ago

abduhl 3y ago

Trump attempted to implement a points based system and was met with fierce resistance: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/05/17/key-facts-about-u-s-immigration-policies-and-proposed-changes/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/05/17/key-facts... https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2020/08/06/h-1b-visas-and-trumps-next-merit-based-immigration-plan/?sh=103e459079bd https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2020/08/06/h-1b-...

stackskipton 3y ago
Yea, companies using H-1B to hire cheap workers fought the changes hard.
- rajup 3y ago
  Nah democrats fought it hard because it would “reduce diversity”.
sunshowers 3y ago
The utility of a point system is that it makes the criteria legible—the problem wasn't the fact that it was a points system, the problem was in the details of the system. The second link you posted lists a large number of anti-immigrant ideas that Trump had. That was the general tenor of his administration as I personally experienced it: rhetoric about unauthorized immigration, actions against legal immigrants. (I used to be on an H1B and got my green card last year.)
- abduhl 3y ago
  This is a strange comment to read since, as far as I recall, the only details that were ever really shared before the overall plan was killed due to its political backlash are that it would be merits-based considering age, ability to speak English, job offers, and educational background and that it would shift the number of green cards away from being primarily awarded based on family ties to this new merit system. Democrats rejected even discussing the proposal out of hand. Some quotes from https://apple.news/ABYsQ0lE-RFWj_S5pwuFq5w https://apple.news/ABYsQ0lE-RFWj_S5pwuFq5w : On the other side of the aisle, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) called Trump’s offering a “dead-on-arrival plan that is not a remotely serious proposal.” And Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.) slammed it as a “despicable abdication of moral authority” that would have kept Blumenthal’s own immigrant father from entering the United States. … Democrats on Thursday also took issue with the White House’s characterization of the kind of immigrants who bring “merit” to the United States. “It is really a condescending word,” Pelosi said at her weekly news conference on Thursday morning. “Are they saying family is without merit?”
  - sunshowers 3y ago
    Ah, I was going by the RAISE Act: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAISE_Act#Full_details_of_the_points_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAISE_Act#Full_details_of_the_... The goal of the RAISE Act was to substantially reduce family-based immigration while not increasing employment-based immigration to compensate for that. I didn't realize Trump had his own plan (that was never going to be law anyway). But based on what I actually personally experienced Trump actually do, my Bayesian prior for it being helpful to immigrants is extraordinarily low.

binarymax 3y ago

Same for the UK, the tier-1 visa, which is how I got my first independent visa there. Unfortunately it also gives high points for income, which biases for privileged peoples and origin countries. But if you can get to the UK on a work permit with a high salary for a couple years, then you can apply it as points when you eventually apply. EDIT: just checked and it’s obsolete. Not sure if there is a post-Brexit equivalent. https://www.gov.uk/tier-1-investor https://www.gov.uk/tier-1-investor

klipt 3y ago

Isn't Canada full of foreign PhDs driving taxis because they qualify for permanent residence on points but then can't get jobs because employers want "Canadian work experience"? Canada also has a major housing crisis due to not building enough housing for population growth (which is entirely immigration, Canada's population would shrink without it). Doesn't seem their system works very well in practice. At least the U.S. employer based green card system mostly guarantees that employment green card recipients already have jobs.

ink_13 3y ago
> Isn't Canada full of foreign PhDs driving taxis because they qualify for permanent residence on points but then can't get jobs because employers want "Canadian work experience"? Canadian here. Nope.
- bluedevilzn 3y ago
  Also Canadian here. PhD might be a stretch but there’s absolutely a large number of Uber drivers with a foreign masters.
  - Detrytus 3y ago
    And that makes sense, since in some countries Master’s degrees are dime a dozen. PhD still means something
givemeethekeys 3y ago
"Canadian work experience" is a generic reason often given to people who the company doesn't want to hire. It has happened to people I know. There can be many reasons: - Racial bias - Sexual bias - Age bias - Candidate's English / French ability. - Candidate's actual experience isn't relevant enough. - Candidate's personality. - Candidate's appearance. - Candidate's communication skills. Why would I give you the real reason when I can provide a generic reason and stay out of trouble? Some people I know went to college to get local credentials. Luckily community college is affordable and respected. Others changed fields. Others started their first business. A few left the country.