3 ms·

If you claim the safety requirements were overzealous, do you have any data to substantiate your claim?

by _ph_ 3y ago

pas 3y ago
On nuclear construction cost increases, from Crowley and Griffith 1982, “US construction cost rise threatens nuclear option” (via @whatisnuclear): """ Ironically, some of the decisions that have been made in the name of improving safety margins for low probability events, may have reduced the safety margins for high probability events. The UE&C piping study uncovered numerous areas where the tolerances requested in the piping design documents might be appropriate for a machine shop oriented manufacturing operation, but are totally unrealistic for field construction. """ via https://rootsofprogress.org/links-digest-2023-12-15 https://rootsofprogress.org/links-digest-2023-12-15 The whole quote is worth reading/skimming. More importantly this zero risk approach has to be considered relative to all the other risks arising from building other types of power plants. https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy (and of course a bit more on the problems with the process at the NRC https://thebreakthrough.org/blog/waiting-on-the-nuclear-regulatory-commission-eight-months-after-receiving-proposed-advanced-reactor-licensing-rule-commission-has-not-acted https://thebreakthrough.org/blog/waiting-on-the-nuclear-regu... )
- goodpoint 3y ago
  And yet... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_power_accidents_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_power_accident...
  - Fatnino 3y ago
    Is there a similar list for coal plants? Also, skimming the list of USA incidents, there are a great deal of bullshit "incidents" in recent times. Most related to natural machanical breakdowns in non radioactive systems due to everything being operated decades past its expiration date. Wouldn't be happening if new NPPs had been built to replace these ancient designs.
    - cinntaile 3y ago
      Coal simply does not have the same risk profile so such a list does not exist. > Wouldn't be happening if new NPPs had been built to replace these ancient designs. That's possible but the economics have to make sense as well. You would do well to try and extend the lifetime of a NPP and run it as an LTO NPP, this maximises profits if it is possible to run the plant past the lifetime it was originally designed for. Incremental upgrades are the way to go in such a case.
    - imtringued 3y ago
      You can literally operate the coal power plant until it falls apart and burns down and nobody gives a damn. Try doing that with a nuclear power plant.
  - pas 3y ago
    And thus! This is how a good culture of safety looks like. Treat small stuff seriously to prevent the big bad things. Similarly with aviation, and with medicine, etc.

If you claim the safety requirements were overzealous, do you have any data to substantiate your claim?

by _ph_ 3y ago

If you claim the safety requirements were overzealous, do you have any data to substantiate your claim?

pas 3y ago

On nuclear construction cost increases, from Crowley and Griffith 1982, “US construction cost rise threatens nuclear option” (via @whatisnuclear): """ Ironically, some of the decisions that have been made in the name of improving safety margins for low probability events, may have reduced the safety margins for high probability events. The UE&C piping study uncovered numerous areas where the tolerances requested in the piping design documents might be appropriate for a machine shop oriented manufacturing operation, but are totally unrealistic for field construction. """ via https://rootsofprogress.org/links-digest-2023-12-15 https://rootsofprogress.org/links-digest-2023-12-15 The whole quote is worth reading/skimming. More importantly this zero risk approach has to be considered relative to all the other risks arising from building other types of power plants. https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy (and of course a bit more on the problems with the process at the NRC https://thebreakthrough.org/blog/waiting-on-the-nuclear-regulatory-commission-eight-months-after-receiving-proposed-advanced-reactor-licensing-rule-commission-has-not-acted https://thebreakthrough.org/blog/waiting-on-the-nuclear-regu... )

goodpoint 3y ago
And yet... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_power_accidents_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_power_accident...
- Fatnino 3y ago
  Is there a similar list for coal plants? Also, skimming the list of USA incidents, there are a great deal of bullshit "incidents" in recent times. Most related to natural machanical breakdowns in non radioactive systems due to everything being operated decades past its expiration date. Wouldn't be happening if new NPPs had been built to replace these ancient designs.
  - cinntaile 3y ago
    Coal simply does not have the same risk profile so such a list does not exist. > Wouldn't be happening if new NPPs had been built to replace these ancient designs. That's possible but the economics have to make sense as well. You would do well to try and extend the lifetime of a NPP and run it as an LTO NPP, this maximises profits if it is possible to run the plant past the lifetime it was originally designed for. Incremental upgrades are the way to go in such a case.
  - imtringued 3y ago
    You can literally operate the coal power plant until it falls apart and burns down and nobody gives a damn. Try doing that with a nuclear power plant.
- pas 3y ago
  And thus! This is how a good culture of safety looks like. Treat small stuff seriously to prevent the big bad things. Similarly with aviation, and with medicine, etc.