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When you start treating "first person with ethnic background X in space" as "good news", that's how you arrive at lots of effort, time and money being spent on

When you start treating "first person with ethnic background X in space" as "good news", that's how you arrive at lots of effort, time and money being spent on pursuing objectives that have zero value.

andsoitis 3y ago
> When you start treating "first person with ethnic background X in space" as "good news", that's how you arrive at lots of effort, time and money being spent on pursuing objectives that have zero value. Reducing barriers so that anyone can pursue their dreams seems like a worthwhile and humanistic goal. I do, however, question the use of the label "ethnic background" because everyone is of some ethnic group.
- CapitalistCartr 3y ago
  "I do, however, question the use of the label "ethnic background" because everyone is of some ethnic group." That's why he wrote "ethnic background X". The X is a relevant part of the quote.
- password54321 3y ago
  >Reducing barriers so that anyone can pursue their dreams seems like a worthwhile and humanistic goal. Sure, and what you treat as a positive reward signal towards this goal is important. If you treat having 10% more of X in field Y, as a positive, then why not 20% or better yet 50%? It leads to artificial results.
yes_man 3y ago
Imagine being born as a little girl in a country where women haven’t had equal rights to men. Now if you see a woman from your country doing something huge (like go to space), it raises the bar or what you believe you can become. Not zero value
- password54321 3y ago
  Your inspiration should simply be anyone. We are all just human. Why is it more inspiring if they look more like you?
  - kingofpandora 3y ago
    What if you were denied opportunities because of your race or gender or something else? Wouldn't you want to know that there barrier is now gone? (Ignore the Saudi case, since this is almost certainly a cynical gesture to foreigners so we can be more accepting of MBS as being actually a really great guy after all considering what he's doing for women)
piloto_ciego 3y ago
This is such a garbage response to this. You don’t think it’s noteworthy and “positive news” that a woman from a country that wouldn’t let women drive just a little while ago is sending a female astronaut to the ISS? I get being irritated by weird and hyperbolic culture war nonsense, but this is pretty freaking amazing IMO. While KSA has a great many problems - especially in regards to human rights <cough MBS having people murdered, cough cough>, this is a positive sign that maybe those sorts of attitudes aren’t permissible in polite company on a global stage anymore. This is good news.
- password54321 3y ago
  I'm sorry I upset you over the internet, I hope you feel better by knowing you did not even understand what I wrote.
  - piloto_ciego 3y ago
    You didn’t upset me, I just think you’re full of it and I’m telling you so because clearly someone in your upbringing failed you. Your response is a low effort response because you don’t actually have a point. It is standard reactionary nonsense, which is surprising to see here but I suppose it shouldn’t be too surprised. “Hurr durr, DEI bad, amirite?” That’s you, that’s what you sound like. Meanwhile, literally one of the most monstrous and backwards countries for women’s rights in the world has put a woman in space and is trying to modernize. Tell me exactly how this is encouraging efforts that have “zero value?” You don’t think Saudi Arabia entering (albeit hesitantly) the 21st century is an achievement unto itself? You don’t think it’s noteworthy or admirable just because it’s not “boots in moon dust” or whatever technical achievement you think is more important? Please. Take your 1930s mentality back to where it came from. The future isn’t only for men of European ancestry.
VoodooJuJu 3y ago
Oh, you just done a heckin badspeak.
dang 3y ago
"Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents." "Please don't pick the most provocative thing in an article or post to complain about in the thread. Find something interesting to respond to instead." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
danans 3y ago
You are assuming that the only reason Barnawi went to the ISS is because of her ethnicity. I looked her up, and turns out she is conducting experiments on ISS in her field of biomedical research. https://english.alarabiya.net/News/saudi-arabia/2023/05/25/Saudi-astronauts-complete-first-scientific-experiments-in-space https://english.alarabiya.net/News/saudi-arabia/2023/05/25/S... You might counter that she was selected by the wealthy Saudi authorities as a PR stunt. That's probably also true to some extent, but how is that different than the than how space travel was used for PR/patriotic purposes in the US and Russia for in the past? A lot of space travel throughout it's history is openly about selling aspiration.
- password54321 3y ago
  >You are assuming that the only reason Barnawi went to the ISS is because of her ethnicity. Never said that. Just pointing out what you treat as a positive reward signal matters if you want to optimize for the goal that's actually intended here.
  - danans 3y ago
    > what you treat as a positive reward signal matters if you want to optimize for the goal that's actually intended here. What is this singular goal that you are implying should be intended here? The absolutely pure pursuit of science? That's never been the goal of space travel, even from it's inception.

andsoitis 3y ago

> When you start treating "first person with ethnic background X in space" as "good news", that's how you arrive at lots of effort, time and money being spent on pursuing objectives that have zero value. Reducing barriers so that anyone can pursue their dreams seems like a worthwhile and humanistic goal. I do, however, question the use of the label "ethnic background" because everyone is of some ethnic group.

CapitalistCartr 3y ago
"I do, however, question the use of the label "ethnic background" because everyone is of some ethnic group." That's why he wrote "ethnic background X". The X is a relevant part of the quote.
password54321 3y ago
>Reducing barriers so that anyone can pursue their dreams seems like a worthwhile and humanistic goal. Sure, and what you treat as a positive reward signal towards this goal is important. If you treat having 10% more of X in field Y, as a positive, then why not 20% or better yet 50%? It leads to artificial results.

yes_man 3y ago

Imagine being born as a little girl in a country where women haven’t had equal rights to men. Now if you see a woman from your country doing something huge (like go to space), it raises the bar or what you believe you can become. Not zero value

password54321 3y ago
Your inspiration should simply be anyone. We are all just human. Why is it more inspiring if they look more like you?
- kingofpandora 3y ago
  What if you were denied opportunities because of your race or gender or something else? Wouldn't you want to know that there barrier is now gone? (Ignore the Saudi case, since this is almost certainly a cynical gesture to foreigners so we can be more accepting of MBS as being actually a really great guy after all considering what he's doing for women)

piloto_ciego 3y ago

This is such a garbage response to this. You don’t think it’s noteworthy and “positive news” that a woman from a country that wouldn’t let women drive just a little while ago is sending a female astronaut to the ISS? I get being irritated by weird and hyperbolic culture war nonsense, but this is pretty freaking amazing IMO. While KSA has a great many problems - especially in regards to human rights <cough MBS having people murdered, cough cough>, this is a positive sign that maybe those sorts of attitudes aren’t permissible in polite company on a global stage anymore. This is good news.

password54321 3y ago
I'm sorry I upset you over the internet, I hope you feel better by knowing you did not even understand what I wrote.
- piloto_ciego 3y ago
  You didn’t upset me, I just think you’re full of it and I’m telling you so because clearly someone in your upbringing failed you. Your response is a low effort response because you don’t actually have a point. It is standard reactionary nonsense, which is surprising to see here but I suppose it shouldn’t be too surprised. “Hurr durr, DEI bad, amirite?” That’s you, that’s what you sound like. Meanwhile, literally one of the most monstrous and backwards countries for women’s rights in the world has put a woman in space and is trying to modernize. Tell me exactly how this is encouraging efforts that have “zero value?” You don’t think Saudi Arabia entering (albeit hesitantly) the 21st century is an achievement unto itself? You don’t think it’s noteworthy or admirable just because it’s not “boots in moon dust” or whatever technical achievement you think is more important? Please. Take your 1930s mentality back to where it came from. The future isn’t only for men of European ancestry.

VoodooJuJu 3y ago

Oh, you just done a heckin badspeak.

dang 3y ago

"Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents." "Please don't pick the most provocative thing in an article or post to complain about in the thread. Find something interesting to respond to instead." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

danans 3y ago

You are assuming that the only reason Barnawi went to the ISS is because of her ethnicity. I looked her up, and turns out she is conducting experiments on ISS in her field of biomedical research. https://english.alarabiya.net/News/saudi-arabia/2023/05/25/Saudi-astronauts-complete-first-scientific-experiments-in-space https://english.alarabiya.net/News/saudi-arabia/2023/05/25/S... You might counter that she was selected by the wealthy Saudi authorities as a PR stunt. That's probably also true to some extent, but how is that different than the than how space travel was used for PR/patriotic purposes in the US and Russia for in the past? A lot of space travel throughout it's history is openly about selling aspiration.

password54321 3y ago
>You are assuming that the only reason Barnawi went to the ISS is because of her ethnicity. Never said that. Just pointing out what you treat as a positive reward signal matters if you want to optimize for the goal that's actually intended here.
- danans 3y ago
  > what you treat as a positive reward signal matters if you want to optimize for the goal that's actually intended here. What is this singular goal that you are implying should be intended here? The absolutely pure pursuit of science? That's never been the goal of space travel, even from it's inception.