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Google doesn't do business in China because they won't agree to the privacy violating terms of doing so, that is at least a $1T principle if you compare it to t

Google doesn't do business in China because they won't agree to the privacy violating terms of doing so, that is at least a $1T principle if you compare it to the amount of hardware and services that Apple sells there.

mulmen 3y ago
Is that a fair comparison? Apple sells devices, Google sells targeted advertising. Their business and constraints are different.
- JCharante 3y ago
  Apple has iCloud and chooses which governments to give the keys to
- MikusR 3y ago
  Apple also sells services.
  - alt227 3y ago
    Apple mainly sells services
patentatt 3y ago
I find this dubious. Google is not known for respecting privacy, and large corporations in general are not known for voluntarily passing on trillion dollar markets on moral grounds. Is there perhaps an alternative explanation that isn't as far fetched?
- donkers 3y ago
  This has some context on Google’s exit from China. They refused to censor the search engine to China’s liking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_China#2010–2016:_Giving_up_search_service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_China#2010–2016:_Giving...
  - Kbelicius 3y ago
    Only after they were hacked by China, before that they had no problems with censorship. They also had a plan to return. Doubt there were any principles in play when making decisions on their China operarions
  - smallstepforman 3y ago
    Google have a history of censorship in western countries, as evidenced by the scrubbing of all C19 alternative information which didn’t align with TPTB narratives.
  - GeekyBear 3y ago
    > They refused to censor the search engine to China’s liking. Google had no problem with censoring the search results in China. They exited the country after it began hacking into their data centers. > Since arriving here in 2006 under an arrangement with the government that purged its Chinese search results of banned topics, Google has come under fire for abetting a system that increasingly restricts what citizens can read online. Google linked its decision to sophisticated cyberattacks on its computer systems that it suspected originated in China and that were aimed, at least in part, at the Gmail user accounts of Chinese human rights activists. https://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/13/world/asia/13beijing.html https://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/13/world/asia/13beijing.html
snotrockets 3y ago
Google’s executives would very much like to operate in China, only they faced public pressure (the term to search for is “project dragonfly”). I won’t be surprised if they’ll retry to enter China soon.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  Public pressure vs $1tn. Hmm.
  - snotrockets 3y ago
    Right now, part of that pressuring public also includes elected representatives in positions of some power over Google, which is quite the stick. Of course, such elected are replaced every few years.
    - robertlagrant 3y ago
      So it's not public pressure, it's powerful people who don't like Google.
      - snotrockets 3y ago
        Those people are beholden to public pressure. That's how representative governments tend to work.
        robertlagrant 3y ago
        Sure, but the claim was that they faced public pressure. The reality is likely not that millions of people marched to put pressure on Google, nor to ensure their representatives knew what to do in this situation, but that some powerful people (who happen to be elected representatives, maybe) decided that Google should be dissuaded from this path, and that's what happened.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  They faced internal pressure from employees as I remember it. They shutdown their Chinese sites after the PLA was caught hacking Gmail accounts in Hong Kong, but this was when Paige and Sergey were more involved (being from formerly authoritarian communist countries).
GeekyBear 3y ago
The only things that prevented Google from returning to the China market, were public pressure and an employee revolt. > Google employees are calling on the company to cancel Project Dragonfly, an effort to create a censored search engine in China. “Many of us accepted employment at Google with the company’s values in mind, including its previous position on Chinese censorship and surveillance, and an understanding that Google was a company willing to place its values above its profits,” an open letter signed by Google employees published Tuesday on Medium says. “After a year of disappointments including Project Maven, Dragonfly, and Google’s support for abusers, we no longer believe this is the case.” Google’s Chinese search app would have reportedly complied with demands to remove content that the government ruled sensitive and linked users’ searches to their personal phone numbers. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/27/read-google-employees-open-letter-protesting-project-dragonfly.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/27/read-google-employees-open-l...
scarface_74 3y ago
Google won’t do business in China because it is blocked in China. But they still make hardware there like everyone else
rib3ye 3y ago
Doesn’t every Chinese smartphone run android? Is that totally without profit? Honest question.

mulmen 3y ago

Is that a fair comparison? Apple sells devices, Google sells targeted advertising. Their business and constraints are different.

JCharante 3y ago
Apple has iCloud and chooses which governments to give the keys to
MikusR 3y ago
Apple also sells services.
- alt227 3y ago
  Apple mainly sells services

patentatt 3y ago

I find this dubious. Google is not known for respecting privacy, and large corporations in general are not known for voluntarily passing on trillion dollar markets on moral grounds. Is there perhaps an alternative explanation that isn't as far fetched?

donkers 3y ago
This has some context on Google’s exit from China. They refused to censor the search engine to China’s liking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_China#2010–2016:_Giving_up_search_service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_China#2010–2016:_Giving...
- Kbelicius 3y ago
  Only after they were hacked by China, before that they had no problems with censorship. They also had a plan to return. Doubt there were any principles in play when making decisions on their China operarions
- smallstepforman 3y ago
  Google have a history of censorship in western countries, as evidenced by the scrubbing of all C19 alternative information which didn’t align with TPTB narratives.
- GeekyBear 3y ago
  > They refused to censor the search engine to China’s liking. Google had no problem with censoring the search results in China. They exited the country after it began hacking into their data centers. > Since arriving here in 2006 under an arrangement with the government that purged its Chinese search results of banned topics, Google has come under fire for abetting a system that increasingly restricts what citizens can read online. Google linked its decision to sophisticated cyberattacks on its computer systems that it suspected originated in China and that were aimed, at least in part, at the Gmail user accounts of Chinese human rights activists. https://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/13/world/asia/13beijing.html https://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/13/world/asia/13beijing.html

snotrockets 3y ago

Google’s executives would very much like to operate in China, only they faced public pressure (the term to search for is “project dragonfly”). I won’t be surprised if they’ll retry to enter China soon.

robertlagrant 3y ago
Public pressure vs $1tn. Hmm.
- snotrockets 3y ago
  Right now, part of that pressuring public also includes elected representatives in positions of some power over Google, which is quite the stick. Of course, such elected are replaced every few years.
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    So it's not public pressure, it's powerful people who don't like Google.
    - snotrockets 3y ago
      Those people are beholden to public pressure. That's how representative governments tend to work.
      - robertlagrant 3y ago
        Sure, but the claim was that they faced public pressure. The reality is likely not that millions of people marched to put pressure on Google, nor to ensure their representatives knew what to do in this situation, but that some powerful people (who happen to be elected representatives, maybe) decided that Google should be dissuaded from this path, and that's what happened.
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
They faced internal pressure from employees as I remember it. They shutdown their Chinese sites after the PLA was caught hacking Gmail accounts in Hong Kong, but this was when Paige and Sergey were more involved (being from formerly authoritarian communist countries).

GeekyBear 3y ago

The only things that prevented Google from returning to the China market, were public pressure and an employee revolt. > Google employees are calling on the company to cancel Project Dragonfly, an effort to create a censored search engine in China. “Many of us accepted employment at Google with the company’s values in mind, including its previous position on Chinese censorship and surveillance, and an understanding that Google was a company willing to place its values above its profits,” an open letter signed by Google employees published Tuesday on Medium says. “After a year of disappointments including Project Maven, Dragonfly, and Google’s support for abusers, we no longer believe this is the case.” Google’s Chinese search app would have reportedly complied with demands to remove content that the government ruled sensitive and linked users’ searches to their personal phone numbers. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/27/read-google-employees-open-letter-protesting-project-dragonfly.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/27/read-google-employees-open-l...

scarface_74 3y ago

Google won’t do business in China because it is blocked in China. But they still make hardware there like everyone else

rib3ye 3y ago

Doesn’t every Chinese smartphone run android? Is that totally without profit? Honest question.